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Messages - pimpernel

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1
Denbighshire Lookup Requests / Re: Lydia Jones, canal boat worker
« on: Saturday 06 April 24 09:44 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks for all the generous feedback everyone, I don't receive email notifications when a reply has been posted to the forum so apologies for slow response.

Thank you Gadget for reminding me of my previous thread on this line! My research here has been largely on hold with the problems of Jones name research, however DNA analysis is definitely helping to break down some brick walls, I'd recommend anyone with Welsh heritage to take a test!

DNA matching has confirmed my connection to Lydia through descendants of her line, so there's no mistake she is related to John Jones, but is she a niece as claimed in the 1871 census, or a granddaughter? I'm guessing, if she was born on a barge it's possible her birth may not be registered, but surely her marriage would be, somewhere?
If I can identify her father it might help understand what happened to the teenage John and Richard, sons of John Jones, or if her father is a brother of John, perhaps help to identify John's father in turn. Unfortunately DNA isn't helping much for generations that far back!

Point taken about possible connections to mining, it's possible there is a link with the Brymo household after all. John Jones seems to have spent most of his working life as a boat-owner on the Ellesmere canal, the earliest record stating occupation I've found is the 1841 Census.

2
Denbighshire Lookup Requests / Lydia Jones, canal boat worker
« on: Thursday 04 April 24 13:01 BST (UK)  »
Hello group,
I'm hoping someone can help tracing the birth or marriage record of Lydia Jones.
I'm trying to identify the father of Lydia, who is shown in the 1871 census aged 17, single, on board the 'Atlantic' boat in Grindley Brook, Shropshire, listed as niece to it's 74-year old owner John Jones.
John is my 3rd gt grandfather, born around 1796 in Froncysyllte, so, if the census is correct, Lydia's father is probably a younger brother of John. Unfortunately, I've not been able to identify John's birth record or parents, so any siblings remain unresolved so far.

The 1871 census states Lydia is born around 1853 in Llangollen (which often covers Froncysyllte as well in this era). Later censuses show her married to a William Morris and settled in Chester in 1881, her birthplace listed simply as N. Wales, and in Ellesmere 1901 stating birth in Corwen. Their eldest child is shown born circa 1873, suggesting they were married between 1871 and that year, but I've not found a marriage record. I've not traced her in the 1891 census either, or the 1861, which is missing for Froncysyllte.
I've several DNA matches descending from this household, which confirms Lydia's connection to my John Jones, however, the identity of her father is eluding me. I can't find a marriage record for her and William Morris, nor a reliable birth record.

There is a possible birth entry for 1853 Mar qtr Wrexham 11b 327, however, I noticed a 20 Apr 1874 Wrexham marriage of Lydia Jones to Thomas Pierce that could be this individual, listing her as a daughter of Edward Jones, a miner... not much to do with the canals. As the 1871 census states my Lydia's birthplace as 'Llangollen' (which would include Fron, like John) more likely her birth district is Corwen, or an independant chapel birth rather than Wrexham. Also there's a Brymbo 27 Dec 1852 baptism to a John & Ann Jones, but it's a miner's family, and a little early for Lydia's claimed age in 1871. 

Finding her birth record or her marriage document to William Morris would help to identify her father, can anyone help?

There is another theory - that she was in fact the granddaughter of John Jones, not his niece as stated in the 1871. As there's a significant age gap between them (74 and 17) this makes sense, but why would the census state her twice as niece then? Regardless, it still leaves the identity of her father unresolved. John Jones had two sons who could be candidates - John (bapt. 8 Feb 1824 in Cysyllte, Llangollen, boatman with his parents aged 15 in the 1841 census), and Richard (bapt. 4 Oct 1833 in the Glan yr Afon Chapel, Llangollen, and also a boatman with his parents aged 18 in the 1851 in Vron Vian, Cysyllte). Both of these I've traced up to teenage years, but not thereafter.

Some trees on Ancestry have listed Lydia's father as Richard, born 1836 (rather than 1833), but with no documentary evidence.

Very grateful for any help!

3
Just a follow-up to this following fresh research.  Hester Toms, one of the witnesses to Catherine's wedding, was baptised to John & Mary Toms of Blockley in 1763, so is either sister, or cousin to Catherine, depending which family Catherine was from. It seems most likely she was sister, thus suggesting Catherine is the 1764 baptism to John & Mary, not the 1768 baptised daughter of John & Elizabeth, who died young in 1779.

The Aston Magna family of John & Elizabeth Toms seem to have a tragic history - Ditchford was largely abandoned as a settlement at this time, but having settled in Aston Magna they lost at least three children in quick succession at the end of the 1770's to Small Pox.

4
Worcestershire / Re: Blockley And Draycott Surname Interests
« on: Tuesday 09 June 20 15:24 BST (UK)  »
Hi, catching up with old threads, some updates to my Blockley connections: I've also 18thC connections through Francis HANDY (born circa 1690), Richard Rose HAINES (1730) and John TOMS (1740).

5
Worcestershire / Re: Broadway Parish records
« on: Tuesday 25 February 20 12:04 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks Mike, these are very useful!!! I knew of Parish Mouse but wasn't aware it had these links. I'll check the other sources too :)

6
Worcestershire / Re: Broadway Parish records
« on: Sunday 23 February 20 13:55 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks everyone! I found a few for the 19th century, but the results were very limited, though I know I have more than one line from the village. Perhaps the records have only recently been transcribed, as mentioned, LDS site had almost nothing.

7
I agree we're probably looking more at an 1860's birth than 1870's or 80's, not only her hands, the dress itself, and her slightly sunken features suggest to me the top end of her 50's, perhaps in her '60's I'd say. Though it can be hard to be precise if she had a tough outdoor life.

8
I agree, the chair is clearly late Victorian, but the simple trim dress suggests the first decades of the 20th century, I'd guess Edwardian era, though it could be even later, I have a photo of my gt-grandmother (probably taken in Birmingham) in an almost identical dress with similar locket etc, which dates from the 1910's or early 1920's.

9
Denbighshire / Re: Hughes & Parry in Llangollen
« on: Friday 17 May 19 09:04 BST (UK)  »
I find a number of my Froncysyllte ancestors have connections to St.Martin's Shropshire, due to the canal system, or the industry surrounding it. In the early 19th Century the canal would have been the highway of it's day, there would have been much movement back and forth.

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