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Messages - peakoverload

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Buckinghamshire / Re: Two burials of same name exactly 1 year apart
« on: Tuesday 16 February 21 15:28 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks all for the replies and info, especially to LizzieL for the new leads.

I know that with records of this age there is often an element of 'best guess' as the detail recorded is so scant. It's also further complicated in that there appear to be a number of Gray families living in Great Marlow around that time and into the 1800's and there does appear to be two or three generations of Robert at various stages and in at least one occurrence, both married someone of the same name.

Going through things though, unless I've missed something, the most likely scenario based on the records found so far is that:

Robert Gray was baptised 04/01/1757 to parents Robert and Elizabeth

Ann Allum was born c1752

Robert married Ann Allum 23/02/1778 Robert aged 21, Ann aged 26

Ann Allum was buried 10/11/1816

Robert was buried 28/05/1837

All the dates do seem to match up. The thing I'm less certain about is Robert only being 21 when he married when Ann was 26. Whilst certainly not impossible, it just 'feels' a little too much of an age gap for people so young.

It's entirely possible that Robert wasn't born in Great Marlow, it's just that 3-4 generations after him were all from there. Indeed I'm really struggling to trace this line any further back than this.

Buckinghamshire / Two burials of same name exactly 1 year apart
« on: Monday 15 February 21 21:53 GMT (UK)  »
I'm tracing my 5xGG Robert Gray. I know almost nothing about him other than he was married to an Ann Allum whom he married in Great Marlow on 23/02/1778

They had 4 children:

Joseph Gray b1781
Ann Gray b1783
Sarah Gray b 1785
Hannah Gray b1790

I've no idea when Robert was born but have presumed it was around 1757 +/- 5 years in Great Marlow. Unfortunately there are two potential baptisms that match, one in 1757 and the other in 1759 and at the moment I've no way of identifying which is correct.

I'm also trying to find a burial for him and as it must be on or after 1790 I can only find two burials in Great Marlow that are possibles. However they match each other almost too perfectly and it makes me wonder if they are in fact the same burial but one has been miss transcribed.

In the record set England Deaths & Burials 1538-1991 there is a burial for a Robert Gray in Great Marlow on 19 Sep 1791

In the archives of the centre for Buckinghamshire Studies in the Bishops Transcripts (archive reference D/A/T/126/8) there is a burial for a Robert Gray in Great Marlow on 19 Sep 1790

What are the chances of there being two Robert Gray's in Great Marlow that were buried on exactly the same day but 1 year apart? Would you agree that this is more than likely a transcription error or that the date was written down incorrectly in the Bishops Transcript?

London and Middlesex / Court of Common Pleas
« on: Sunday 14 February 21 13:58 GMT (UK)  »
I'm researching my 2x GG George Gray b1840 in York Town, Surrey d1918 in Wandsworth, London.

Looking through the various census and other documents I've found, he's listed as:
Tea Merchant
Hay Straw Salesman

So it would appear he was of relatively humble means. However, one of his sons, Charles Haddon Gray went on to become a solicitor of some note and made a very successful career. It has puzzled me how his son was able to make that leap into a completely different line of work and lifestyle.

I've just found Charles Haddon Gray's School Admission registration in 1873 on Ancestry (LCC/EO/DIV01/STCL1/AD/001 page 19) and the address given is rather odd.

In 1871, according to the census, the family were living at 8 Bates Terrace, Wandsworth Road, Vauxhall

But the address given on the school admission is Court of Common Pleas, Westminster

According to Wikipedia The Court of Common Pleas, or Common Bench, was a common law court in the English legal system that covered "common pleas"; actions between subject and subject, which did not concern the king.

Does anyone know how this could be used as an address and whether this had any bearing on his son later becoming a solicitor?

Family History Beginners Board / Re: Charles Haddon Redvers Gray
« on: Friday 12 February 21 12:35 GMT (UK)  »
Radcliff, can I ask where you found that image you posted? I would be interested to read a bit more if it's available online. I can't find a book called Tambimuttu 1915- 1983. I can find one called Tambimuttu : Bridge Between Two Worlds by Jane Williams which mentions him a few times but it doesn't seem to have that photo of him.

Family History Beginners Board / Re: Charles Haddon Redvers Gray
« on: Friday 12 February 21 11:42 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you so much for this! This is really interesting and confirms a few things I suspected about him and gives me a few more leads on other bits too. I have a photo of him when he was younger and there is definitely a resemblance, so for certain it's the same person.

Amazing bit of detective work!!

Family History Beginners Board / Charles Haddon Redvers Gray
« on: Tuesday 02 February 21 22:02 GMT (UK)  »
So this is a bit of an odd one and I suspect it's a case of a family story either being half true or at least covered up to hide the real story.

Charles Haddon Gray was my Great Grand Uncle b1866 d01/02/1941 in Addleston, Surrey, England. For most of his life he lived in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey and practiced as a solicitor. He was married to a Florence Camilla Martin and they had one child, Charles Haddon Redvers Gray (CHRG).

For years I could find almost nothing about CHRG apart from his birth, the 1901 and 1911 census and his death in 1971. I have however just found him on the 1939 register where he was listed as an unemployed Company Secretary in Walton-On-Thames.

The fact that I couldn't find anything about him seemed to fit a family story. That being that one day he decided to give everything up and essentially became a vagrant or at least someone who just roamed around. The story goes that the family were embarrassed by him as he would occasionally just turn up at their door and would stay a day or two before disappearing again. The main thing was that it was his choice to live like this and that he actually liked it. Indeed the impression I got was that he liked to cause embarrassment to his family.

Now this story came to me from my father but he now has dementia and so I can't verify any of this with him anymore.

However, I've just been searching the British Newspaper Archives and I found an article that suggests something else. With a name like this, I would also think it unlikely that there would be two people of the same name. For example:

June 1st 1934 - Thanet Advertiser - A Charles Haddon Redvers Grey is a solicitor in a fraud case where it states he is "of Chancery Lane"

There is also a book called The Mayfair Mafia: The Lives and Crimes of the Messina Brothers which apparently is a true crime book by Dick Kerby which is about "From the mid-1930s into the 1950s, one immigrant Italian family ran Londonís thriving vice trade"

This is available on Google Books and in it it says:

"To start with, in 1934 Eugenio had already been busy. On 28 July at Bow Street Police Court, Charles Haddon Redvers Grey, a 33 year old solicitor of Crown Court, Chancery Lane, pleaded guilty to making a false declaration by saying that Hilda Ward, a 20 year old barmaid, was a fit and proper person to receive a passport. In mitigation, Mr, J. Thompson Halsall told the magistrate, Sir Rollo Frederick Graham-Campbell, that his client had been introduced to the girl by an estate agent with whom he had had many dealings and had no reason to disbelieve, and added that Gray was 'more foolish than knavish'. Fining Gray £50 and ordering him to pay 10 guineas cost, Sir Rollo sternly informed the prisoner that the offence was a serious one, punishable with a maximum sentence of two years imprisonment and a fine of £100"

His age of 33 in 1934 matches the birth of my CHRG so I'm as sure as I can be that these people are all one in the same.

Now it could be that after this he decided to quit and 'go off' or perhaps he lost his job and couldn't find work or perhaps he had some kind of mental breakdown. Alternatively perhaps he continued working somewhere, I can't tell as there just doesn't appear to be any records of him.

Does anyone know where else I could search for him to see what happened to him? Presumably there must be court records of this case, where would I be able to access them? Does anyone know if there are records of solicitors like when they qualified etc? I found a notice in the paper for when his father qualified as a solicitor but nothing for CHRG.

Family History Beginners Board / Re: Finding 1950's UK Burial Records
« on: Monday 01 February 21 22:48 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you again for the leads. I couldn't find any children using Ancestry but could find them using Find My Past.

Family History Beginners Board / Re: Finding 1950's UK Burial Records
« on: Sunday 31 January 21 16:37 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you all for your replies and help, it is really appreciated! Thank you Girl Guide for the cremation info on Charles, I know that Crematorium very well.

I'll keep looking for some kind of record for Ethel but I suspect she was cremated. I've managed to find Audrey who died in 1990 in East Preston (just outside Worthing) and it looks like she didn't have any children so I guess the trail goes cold.

Just found it incredible that a relative who died around 15 years before I was even born ended up living less than 5 minutes from where I lived, not once but twice! Would have been nice to have had a grave to go and say hello to but such is life.

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