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Messages - UKgirl

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1
Ireland / Re: Digitisation of Church of Ireland parish records
« on: Monday 23 May 22 15:34 BST (UK)  »
Yes, the map search is particularly easy to use and useful.

And of course, it was these scanned images that allowed Ancestry to produce their record collection:

"Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915"

which they first published in 2016 and then updated in 2018.

2
Ireland / Re: Digitisation of Church of Ireland parish records
« on: Monday 23 May 22 14:11 BST (UK)  »
Hello athacliath62,

Thank you for your clear explanation and very helpful link.

I was already aware of the Anglican Record Project website. In their own words:
Quote:
“A small number of parish registers have been digitised and are available to view here and on the Anglican Record Project. This digital record is a work in progress.”

I had not realised that the fanfare of 2018 referred to this particular typed project, that started out as one man’s research into his own family tree. And although it is “a small number” of parish registers, it is clear that a huge amount of work has already been undertaken.
 
May I express my thanks to all those involved.

Your link reveals that currently, the details from about 23 parishes are available, all beautifully typed (transcribed and indexed).

The transcriptions of the first parish were produced in 1991/1992.

More recently:
2017 – 3 parishes were added
2018 – 4 parishes were added
2019 – 1 parish was added
2020 – 4 parishes were added

This is clearly a painstaking mammoth project that will take very many years, even with the recent funding.

****
For those with Catholic ancestors, the National Library of Ireland website has scanned images from parish registers that can be seen free of charge.

https://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx

Alas, after the announcement in 2018, I had mistakenly been imagining something similar for the Church of Ireland registers.

Talk about wishful thinking.....

UKgirl

3
Ireland / Digitisation of Church of Ireland parish records
« on: Sunday 22 May 22 12:23 BST (UK)  »
https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/genealogy/church-ireland-parish-registers-online

QUOTE:
"On September 10, 2018, Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Josepha Madigan TD announced that over $110,000 (€100,000) had been granted toward the digitization of Church of Ireland parish registers, held in the Representative Church Body Library, as part of the Department’s digitization scheme.

The RCB Library is most grateful for this significant commitment to the project to digitize Church of Ireland parish registers,” added Dr. Susan Hood, RCB Librarian, and Archivist."

At the bottom of this article, it explained that:
Once digitized, the records will be available at www.irishgenealogy.ie

****
Alas, frequent glances at that website have shown that the church records have not yet been updated. The website continues to contain only the following 4 parishes:

Carlow (COI)
Cork & Ross (RC)
Dublin (COI) Dublin (PRESBY.) Dublin (RC)
Kerry (COI) Kerry (RC)

Does anyone know anything at all about this project?

No doubt Covid has played a part in the delay, but 3 years and 8 months is a long time without any news as to how this project is progressing.

******

Today there was some good news about a different project.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/irish-public-record-office-civil-war-bombardment-archives-reborn

QUOTE:
"Digital wizardry and academic sleuthing have helped recreate a cultural treasure severely damaged in the conflict in 1922.

The project mixed old-fashioned academic sleuthing, artificial intelligence and collaboration with dozens of archives in the UK, continental Europe, the US and Australia. The results – an immersive 3D reconstruction of the destroyed building and a vast digital archive – will be formally launched on 27 June. It will be an open-access free resource with a searchable website. The 3D reconstruction gives viewers a detailed, and eerie, tour of the Public Record Office as it looked before the fire."

Not sure whether that means that parish records can be searched on 27 June? That would be just too much to hope for.

Does anyone really know whether that will be possible? It seems a bit unlikely.

UKgirl

4
Armed Forces / Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« on: Saturday 23 April 22 13:57 BST (UK)  »
Hello Iain,

Re. death of mother Faith in 1796:

See Reply #15

I think that my notes regarding the death of mother Faith in 1796 still hold.
I think that it is logical, albeit the explanation is a bit convoluted.

I think that Ancestry has the "father's name" as Margaret Wilson.

Perhaps on Ancestry you could correct Margaret Wilson to Margaret Allred? That would be helpful.

Anyway, burial of Faith Hampson, daughter of Margaret Allred.

5
Armed Forces / Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« on: Saturday 23 April 22 13:22 BST (UK)  »
Previously I noted 3 children of Richard & Jane, but I now think that there was a 4th child, Peter, named after Richard’s father? There’s a bit of a gap, and the Abode has changed from Atherton to Leigh.

Baptisms at the Protestant Dissenting Chapel, Chowbent
From Lancashire Online Parish Clerk
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

Parents = Richard & Jane Hampson

1821 Dec 17 birth John Hampson – baptised 1824 Apr 18, Abode = Atherton
1824 Apr 3 birth Faith Hampson – baptised 1824 Apr 18, Abode = Atherton
1824 Nov 28 burial Faith Hampson aged 7 mo – Daughter of Richd Hampson & Jane
Abode = Atherton, burial in Atherton, St. John the Baptist
1825 Nov 10 birth Faith Hampson – baptised 1825 Nov 27, Abode = Atherton
1831 Mar 28 birth Peter Hampson – baptised 1831 Sep 1, Abode = Leigh

(images on Ancestry for your tree)

***************

Re. daughter Faith Hampson:
I wonder what you make of the following?

(Quoting freely available records)

from Lancashire opc:
Baptism: 27 Nov 1825 Protestant Dissenting Chapel Chowbent, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Faith Hampson - [Child] of Rd. Hampson & Jane
Born: 10 Nov 1825
Abode: Atherton

from Family Search, 1851 Census:
Name   Faith Hampson
Sex   Female
Age   24
Event Date   1851
Event Place   Bedford, Lancashire, England
Registration District   Leigh
Residence Note   Water Street
Birth Year (Estimated)   1827
Birthplace   Egypt British Subject
Marital Status   Unmarried
Occupation   Power Loom Weaver Silk
Relationship to Head of Household   Lodger
Event Type   Census
Page Number   48
Piece/Folio   2204 / 368
Registration Number   HO107

With her son, John, named after her older brother?

Name   John Hampson
Sex   Male
Age   5
Event Date   1851
Event Place   Bedford, Lancashire, England
Registration District   Leigh
Residence Note   Water Street
Birth Year (Estimated)   1846
Birthplace   Leigh, Lancashire
Occupation   Scholar
Relationship to Head of Household   Lodger
Event Type   Census
Page Number   48
Piece/Folio   2204 / 368
Registration Number   HO107

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/8860/?name=faith_hampson&count=50&name_x=1_psx

****
Death from Lancashire BMD (Preston Reg. District)
HAMPSON   Faith, aged 30, 1862, sub-district  Preston

****
Are these 3 the same person? It is a rare name. The ages don’t match perfectly, but the 1851 Census is for Leigh, the correct neighbourhood.

What about:
1841?
1861?

Born in Egypt?
Was she just having a laugh? Or is it some horrendous transcription error from notes taken by the enumerator?

Or did the family actually live in Egypt from when she was a little girl? Is that possible?

Since the words British Subject are clearly written, it seems to suggest that it was written in a serious manner.

Any thoughts?

6
Yes, Rosie, that is correct. But that doesn't make it any more or any less confusing.

Pauline, you are correct – many old Registers have such intermingling. You can even see Baptisms, Marriages and Burials all on the same page sometimes, especially in a tiny village church – and yes that can be every confusing and you need to look carefully.

The 1782-1797 Register of Leigh St. Mary is not like that.

The first half of the Register is all Christenings 1782-1797
The second half of the Register is all Burials 1782-1798, with a few more 1797 Christenings right at the end.

As can be seen on Ancestry:
Christenings Pages 1-99 (of 159)
Burials Pages 99-155 (of 159)
Christenings Pages 155-159

The top of each page is clearly marked, and it is not as if at a glance you could mistake Baptisms for Burials because they both begin with B. Christenings begins with C.

I would have thought that in this case it would be difficult or extremely careless to make such a glaring error. But I have no idea of the scale of such errors. It is my first realisation of this problem, and I can imagine that when it comes up as hints on Ancestry, people will accept that the child died soon after birth.

7
Armed Forces / Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« on: Thursday 21 April 22 14:07 BST (UK)  »
Hello Iain,

Scarily, I found that your Richard Hampson, mother Faith, died in 1793.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/7224894:9840?_phsrc=ADs2693&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=richard&gsln=hampson&ml_rpos=2&queryId=a4bd88430d85ee292e0aa736cc36b66e

After recovering from a huge disappointment, I then confirmed that this is nonsense by checking the burial images for Leigh, St. Mary.

So, if that burial record pops up before your eyes as a hint, you have no need to worry and can confidently dismiss it as rubbish.

see:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=861383.msg7306140

UKgirl

8
Re. England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
This database is on Ancestry, Find my Past and freely available on Family Search.

This is quite disturbing.

Lancashire
Leigh, St. Mary the Virgin

Baptism Richard Hampson, mother Faith
St. Mary, Leigh
1793 May 12
(confirmed by image)

Burial Richard Hampson, mother Faith
Leigh
1793 May 12

The second record comes ONLY from the database: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

At first glance, you would think that this sad event was the death of a newborn. On further reflection, it is bizarre to imagine that a baby would be baptised, and then a few minutes later they would hurry outside to bury the poor dearly departed mite. Visions of being drowned in the font come tumbling to mind.

But then, imagine this, yet another poor Richard Hampson:

Baptism Richard Hampson, parents William & Sarah
St. Mary, Leigh
1793 Jan 13
(confirmed by image)

Burial Richard Hampson, parents William & Sarah
Leigh
1793 Jan 13

Gosh!!! Two babies drowned in the same font ??????

Of course, I am being facetious. I have searched the relevant church burial images and there are no such burials. The conclusion is that someone a very long time ago must have mis-transcribed Baptisms as Burials.

There may be many people with no access to the actual images who have dismissed their potential ancestor as having been a sickly babe who died at/around birth, when they have actually been a bonny babe who thrived into adulthood.

This “hobby” is confusing enough, without Baptisms being mistranscribed as Burials. That’s just too much to cope with!

I have no idea how widespread this is within this database.
Just this year? Just this church? Heaven knows! (Literally perhaps?)

UKgirl

9
Armed Forces / Re: The Royal Chelsea Hospital and pensions:
« on: Wednesday 20 April 22 16:57 BST (UK)  »
By the way, all my Ancestry links are .com
If you want to see them, you might have to change the .com to .co.uk

Re. Faith Hampson

It is not such common name. I too noticed the death of Faith Hampson soon after Richard’s birth.

I have a theory – it’s a bit unusual, but that doesn’t mean that it is impossible.

Here goes:
From Lancashire opc – free to view on the Internet:

Baptism: 14 Nov 1762 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Faith Hampson - Daughter of Margaret Hampson
    Abode: Atherton
    Notes: Base (born)

Baptism: 12 May 1793 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Richard Hampson - Son of Faith Hampson
    Abode: Atherton
    Notes: Base (born)
   
Then there is this, which is the death that you saw as a hint on Ancestry:

Burial: 8 Apr 1796 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Faith Hamson Allred - Base born Daughter of Margaret Allred
    Abode: Atherton   

BUT, if you look at the actual image on Ancestry, that is NOT what it says.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/1218217:2959?tid=&pid=&queryId=7c655eca08338b557b0e1ecb1b354864&_phsrc=ADs2607&_phstart=successSource

It says:
Burials at Atherton Chapel
1796 April 8th Faith Hampson D of Margaret Allred (difficult to read) of Atherton

If it was the burial of a legitimate baby/child, then it would give the father’s name. But, it doesn’t.
If it was the burial of an illegitimate baby/child, then it would give the mother’s name, and the family name of both persons would surely be the same? But, they aren’t.
Lancashire opc has treated the Hampson bit as a middle name, but that’s just their conclusion, not necessarily fact.

What if it was the burial of an adult woman, with no husband, and who had been an illegitimate daughter, but whose mother had since married?

i.e. mother Margaret Hampson had since become Margaret Allred?

If the 3 x Faith Hampsons were the same, she would have been about 31 when Richard was born and about 34 when she died.

I think that it is extremely rare for an adult woman to be buried with her mother’s name mentioned.
But it simply cannot be an illegitimate child because the family names are not the same and it can’t be a legitimate child because there is no father’s name.

I think that it is a rare case, but on the same page, it seems as if every dead human has a description next to their name.

Since they couldn’t write wife of ****, they put the next best thing, D of ****

That’s my theory. If correct, it was an act of kindness, but has more than a touch of tragedy about it, don’t you think?

Grasping at straws?

As proof, we would have to find a marriage between a Margaret Hampson and a Mr. Allred (or something sounding similar) between 1762 and 1796.

****
Nicknames for Margaret:
Maggie, Peggy, etc.

From Lancashire opc

Marriage: 18 Dec 1774 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Henry Alldred - (X), Nailor, Atherton, Leigh Parish
Peggy Hampson - (X), Spinster, Atherton, Leigh Parish
Witness: Isaac Turner; Richard Charlson
Banns Read: 15 May 1774, 2nd: 22 May 1774, 3rd: 13 Nov 1774
Married by Banns by: John Barlow Vicar

Image:
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2962/images/40364_636672_2422-00026?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=9ecd22dd8f1f9eb19d018e6e69078456&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&pId=7164807 

Faith was 12 years old at the time of that marriage.

UKgirl
P.S. I didn't find any other children born to Faith Hampson - just Richard.

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