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Messages - whatshername

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Census Lookup 1841/51/61 SILVER
« on: Monday 15 August 11 14:10 BST (UK)  »
Thank you so much....I have no idea what I am doing. I am new to genealogy and useless at using a computer / the internet! I will email privately when I can think of something else to contribute to the forum! It is such an interesting story that I hoped to tell Jenny, and find out more about Marian / Rose from our family.

London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Census Lookup 1841/51/61 SILVER
« on: Monday 15 August 11 06:26 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jenny,

Sorry I have taken so long to answer this, but I only joined a few days ago! Hope you are still around! This is very interesting because Eliza Emily is my husband's gt grandmother. Please bear in mind that I am still researching this family tree, so this information is incomplete. Since it a difficult family to trace I am very fortunate to be in contact with a PhD student who is also researching this intriguing family.

Eliza Emily (1841 - 1901) was an actress who married a travelling comedian called Frederick Lausanne O'Leary (who used the surname Fredericks). Lausanne came from a family of travelling actors who originated in Ireland.

The elder Emily (born 1815) is her mother, but Silver is not her father.....more about Silver later. Gt gt grandmother Emily had a (well documented) affair with an actor called Charles C Dillon who was married to a Clarissa Conquest (I feel really sorry for her) and as far as I am aware they had three children: we know for certain that two of the three were Emily & William, and it looks like the third might be James (although it's odd that he has the same Christian name as Silver).

William changed his name to Charles Dillon (the same name as his father) and was also an actor. If you look at The Theatre Royal Stratford website (that Charles Dillon Jnr owned before it was sold to Frederick Lausanne's brother Albert), or Charles C Dillon on Wikipedia, you will find more info on this story. (Please note that the Theatre Royal website is full of errors - have been meaning to get in touch with them because lots of the history makes no sense.)

The theatre later passed to my hubby's late grandfather, who also married an actress (deceased). In fact apart from Silver, everybody I have mentioned so far has been in a theatrical profession and unfortunately used more than one name.....not an easy family to trace. They married into other theatrical families including the family who at the time were the biggest theatre owners in the UK.

Emily and Fred had a number of children - I can give you their names if you are interested - in the birth record she gives her name as "O'Leary formerly Middleton" or "O'Leary formerly Silver" which suggests to me that her birth name must have been "Middleton" which was changed to "Silver" when her mother married Silver, so she used either of them as her former name. We don't have her birth cert yet, but if you are interested I can pass the info to you when I buy it. We do have a number of birth, marriage and death certs that might be of interest to you.

James Silver is a complete and utter mystery to us. By the way I read his profession as "assistant to goldsmith", which makes sense since the family were all artists of one kind or another. Don't forget that he is not related to my hubby so I have not found out much about him yet. What is strange is that my hubby has fairly dark skin for an Englishman, and was always told that it's because his ancestor was a D'Silva from Portugal who changed his name to Silver!!! Since he is not even a descendent of Silver this is not possible. Anyway the dark complexion is inherited from the other side of his family! What nonsense families spout......on the other hand Silver's name could have been d'Silva or Desliva, which might be why he seems to have disappeared into thin air!

I could go on and on, so I had better mention Marian who was known as Rose James. There is so much "stuff" in my head that I am struggling to remember who's who. She is supposed to be the half (?) sister of Eliza Emily, and probably the daughter of Emily and Silver, but since I wasn't there at the time, it's not possible to be certain!! A previous researcher "discovered" that she (Rose) married Albert (Lausanne's brother) after the death of his first wife, and my sister in law still believes it to be true, but since I can find no record of a marriage, or of them having lived together, and he did not provide for her in his will (we have a copy) I have dismissed it as fantasy. Actually I think I know how he came to that conclusion, but that is another story!

So if you are still interested I can tell you what we know about Marian / Rose, or find out what you need to know about this family.

As for Frederick Theodore, I had not finished looking for Emily's children and did not know he existed. It would be good to learn something about him please, after all he is my hubby's gt grandmother's brother or half brother. Do you know who the father was? What makes you think it was Silver?!! Do you know how many children there were in total? Are you sure that the Frederick from Stepney is the right Frederick? Also it would be lovely to learn more about Rose / Marian.

Purely coincidentally I used to live in Stepney so I know it very will indeed!

If you read this please can you get in touch? I know this is very complicated!

Thank you.

Travelling People / Re: Seaton Carew 1939 Tiplady/Daley
« on: Saturday 13 August 11 21:15 BST (UK)  »

I have only just joined this forum, and recently started researching my husband's interesting family tree: we knew that his maternal family were travelling actors / comedians who originated from Ireland. Yesterday I received a copy of gt gt grandfather's will written in 1854 by which time they owned properties in Luton even though they were still travellers. He was Fredeick O'Leary (stage name Frederick Fredericks) born c1816 in Banham Norfolk, who appears to have had several "wives" whose surnames I have not yet found.....there is a Caroline Gening (?), Caroline Augusta (there is a match for her that I need to work on), a Louisa Elizabeth and an Ann. There is also a possibility of a connection with the Rayner circus family since a son who appears to have died in infancy was given the middle name "Rayner" grandfather had the middle name "Lausanne".....have no idea why.

What might be of interest to you is that in his will he mentions a John Tiplady as the occupier of one of his properties in Luton (in 1854)....this could have been a field, house, business premises, etc: we simply don't know at this early stage in our research. On Fred's death the properties were jointly owned by is sons, but it appears that gt grandfather might have owned them outright later...not certain about this. (My next step, once we have deciphered the hand writing, is to search the censuses for the people mentioned in his will to find possible address of the properties he owned.)

Have you come across other surnames of travellers of Irish decent in the Luton area? Have you come across the Fredericks / O'Leary family? Maybe, since we are both researching Irish travellers who settled in Luton there might be a connection. Could not believe it when I read the name Tiplady in your post after reading the will for the first time last evening!

Good luck!

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