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Messages - tamarclaire

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1
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Thursday 11 April 24 11:50 BST (UK)  »

Just for the record I agree with the comments made by hanes teulu & Jamot.

Regards Colin


Thanks very much Colin.  It's really helpful to have three other people coming to the same conclusion.

Thank you too for the other  information you posted.  The marriage of William Burton to Alice Hill on 7 November 1809 at Oakham ties in with the records which I have and he is the same William whose death is registered in the Dec Quarter 1871 in Leicester aged 89.

2
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 20:29 BST (UK)  »
There are no further details about the apprentice record, unfortunately, but its just an index from a CD compiled by the Family History Society from records held at Leicester Archives, so there may be more information on the original document.

The accompanying notes say:

"Parish Poor Law Index 1598 – 1940s

This is a copy of the original index produced in 2003 on the first Poor Law CD and covers all the Poor Law cases found on the 20,000 Index Cards in the ROLLR*.   The information has been extracted from records found in the Parish Chests of the individual parishes
".

*Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland

Thank you very much for the details describing the contents of the CD.  I will maybe contact the Leicestershire Record Office to see if they have more information about William Burton's apprentice record.

3
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 20:07 BST (UK)  »
I wonder if this is William Burton, Bartin and Mary's son, bap 1736

Lincolnshire Chronicle, 9 Feb 1838
Deaths
On the 1st inst, at Bristol, W Bartin Burton, Esq, formerly of Burley, in the County of Rutland, and a Captain in the army, age 73

Baptism (FindMyPast transcript)
4 Sep 1763, Wm son of Mr Wm and Maria Burton, Oakham
However, the "original" (a manuscript transcript) reads -
4 Sep 1763, Wm Bartin son of Mr Wm and Maria Burton.

A William Burton married an Anna Maria Brown, 21 Jan 1762, both of Oakham.

Anna Maria Burton, wife of William Burton, buried 16 Feb 1891, age 51, Burley.

"Mr" is synonymous with "Gent" 

Although there is a very slight discrepancy in age, Captain William Bartin Burton formerly of Burly in Rutland who died in 1838 does appear to be the William Bartin Burton baptised at Oakham on 4 September 1763, the son of Mr William and Anna Maria Burton and the grandson of Rev. Bartin Burton.  William Burton (Bartin's son) was baptised 10 Dec 1736 at Oakham and married Anna Maria Brown on 21 Jan 1762 at Oakham.

4
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 19:26 BST (UK)  »
I can't speak for Colin, but personally I don't believe that this (your) William is the grandson of Bartin Burton.

The existence of the removal order indicates that as well as being illiterate and a labourer (as you already pointed out) he was also receiving or at risk of needing parish relief.

Bartin's PCC will is available online and does mention a son John, but it seems to me that people have simply jumped on it without question or further investigation.  Good for you for not doing the same!

Thanks very much for posting the details of the removal order which I had not come across before. and which is very interesting   I have records for all the children listed, except for Robert so I will investigate further!

Thanks very much too for sharing your thoughts on William not being the grandson of Rev. Bartin Burton which has added weight to the doubts I was already having.  It does appear that the fact that William's parents married in Oakham has led to the belief that his father John must have been born in Oakham and this has then led to the assumption that he must have been Bartin's son John who was baptised in 1740. 

Re. the 1801 apprentice record for William Burton to Thomas Clarke.  Does it give the trade that William was apprenticed into?

5
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 17:45 BST (UK)  »

I do not believe that this is the correct William.

1871 Asylum St. West Leicester
BURTON   William   Head   W   88 (1783)   Dyer   Rutland   Oakham      
BURTON   Sarah   Dau   U   50   Chairwoman   Leicestershire   Leicester   Df&dmb   
BURTON   Mary   Dau   U   47   Trimmer & Dyer   Leicestershire   Leicester      

1861 - Ruding Street, West Leicester.
BURTON   William   Head   M   74   Trimmer   Rutland   -      
BURTON   Alice   Wife   M   72   House Wife   Rutland   -      
BURTON   Sarah Dau   U   37Shirt Maker Leicestershire Leicester   
D & D
   
BURTON   Mary   Dau   U   34   Spinner   Leicestershire   Leicester      
BURTON   Thomas   Son   M   30   Machinist   Leicestershire   Leicester      
BURTON   Elizabeth   Sonwif   M   28   Dress Maker   Leicestershire   Ansty      
BURTON   Alice   Grndau   U   9   Scholar   Leicestershire   Leicester      
BURTON   John Thomas   Grnson   U   7   Scholar   Leicestershire   Leicester      

Colin

Hello Colin,

Thanks very much for your reply. I'm a bit confused. Please can you explain why you don't believe that this is the correct William.  Do you mean the William on the 1871 census, William on the 1861 census or both? 

You have highlighted Sarah Burton.  Sarah was baptised 22/7/1821 at St Mary de Castro in Leicester and was deaf and dumb from birth.  I think her occupation on the 1871 census should have been 'charwoman' and not 'chairwoman'. On the 1881 census she is age 60 and living with her niece and family.  She was buried in Welford Road Cemetery 1886 aged 64 on 13 February 1886.

6
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 13:46 BST (UK)  »
1871 Asylum St. West Leicester
BURTON   William   Head   W   88 (1783)   Dyer   Rutland   Oakham     
BURTON   Sarah   Dau   U   50   Chairwoman   Leicestershire   Leicester     
BURTON   Mary   Dau   U   47   Trimmer & Dyer   Leicestershire   Leicester   

The 1871 census is the right William but this census was taken not long before he died and I believe his age is incorrect and should be 84.

On the 1841 census William is age 50 living with his family in Bridge Street, Leicester.   Occupation - Dyer 
On the 1851 census he is age 64 living with his family in Sarah Street, Leicester.  Occupation - Trimmer and Dyer.  Place of birth - Oakham, Rutland
On the 1861 census he is age 74 and living with his family at 50 Ruding Street, Leicester.  Occupation - Trimmer.  Place of birth Rutland


7
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Wednesday 10 April 24 13:26 BST (UK)  »
''This is an extract from Thomas Wotton's 1741 "The english baronetage: ...". It's reasonable to assume that the Rev Bartin Burton links back to the Bartin mentioned here?
A date reference point is " ... 1 Queen Mary ..." which, I think, translates to Regnal year July 1553 to July 1554.''


Thanks very much for sending the extract. Yes, Rev Bartin Burton (1700-1764) is the great grandson of the Bartin mentioned here who was buried at Oakham 12 Dec 1612.

8
Rutland / Re: BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Monday 08 April 24 20:08 BST (UK)  »
Hi Colin and hanes teula

Thank you both very much for your helpful replies.

I have had a look at the clergy database website and it has some really interesting information about Rev. Bartin Burton and the parishes in which he served.  If I can be sure of the link to Bartin through John Burton then Bartin would be my 5x great grandfather.

hanes teula -  I have replied to your PM.  it will be really good to find out more about the dispute over Andrew Burton's Will.

9
Rutland / BURTON John of Oakham Rutland
« on: Sunday 07 April 24 17:09 BST (UK)  »
Hello,

I have traced my family tree back to my 3x great grandfather William Burton who died 25 Nov 1871 in Leicester.  In the 1851 and 1871 censuses he gives his place of birth as Oakham, Rutland. In the 1851 census his age is given as 64 and in the 1861 census it is given as 74 giving a date of birth around 1787. (On his death certificate his daughter gives his age as 89 and on the 1871 census, not long before his death, it is given as 88).  Assuming that the ages on the 1851 and 1861 censuses are more likely to be accurate, William Burton appears to be the son of John Burton and his wife Ann Barnett who married at Oakham on 7 Dec 1776. William, their fifth child, was baptised at Oakham on 30 Sept 1787.

The Oakham parish register entry for John Burton’s marriage to Ann Barnett in 1776 describes him as being a labourer and describes Ann as being a spinster, both were of the parish of Oakham.  Neither were able to write their name and their consent is just indicated by a X.

According to all the versions of this part of the Burton family tree that I have come across, John is considered to be the son of the Rev Bartin Burton and his wife Mary who married 22 Nov 1725 at Great Oxendon, Northants.  Both were described as being of the parish of Oakham and Bartin was indeed baptised there on 19 Sept 1700 being the son of Mr Andrew Burton and his second wife Sarah  John, the seventh child of Bartin and Mary Burton was baptised on 1 May 1740 at Oakham and was mentioned in his father’s Will in 1764.

I have two questions:

1 What is the evidence supporting the belief that William’s father John was the son of Bartin and Mary Burton?  John was a labourer and appears not to have been able to write his own name.  Unless he had learning difficulties, how likely is it that the son of a clergyman would not be able to write his own name?  John was of the parish of Oakham at the time of his marriage but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was born in Oakham.  Could John in fact be the John baptised 29 July 1739 at Braunston the son of Augustin Burton and Ann?  At the time of John’s baptism, Augustin is described as being a labourer. Augustin and Ann had 6 children baptised at Braunston but I have not yet found their marriage which, according to the ages of their children, would have been around 1728.

2 John and Ann Burton’s last child was baptised in 1790 at Oakham.  There is a burial for a John Burton at Oakham on 10 Nov 1806 and also for an Ann Burton on 14 August in the same year.  I have not found a Will for the John who died in 1806 but there is an 1806 Will for an Ann Burton of Oakham listed at the Consistory Court of Peterborough and dated 24 September 1806 but I have not yet investigated this any further.  Many Burton family trees, however, state that William’s father John died in India (no date given) although I am struggling to find the source of this information.  Does anyone know any more about this?

Thanks very much to anyone who can help.



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