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Messages - CelticMom

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1
US Lookup Requests / Re: Moses Hayball - death
« on: Monday 10 April 23 17:50 BST (UK)  »
I am a direct descendant of the Moses Hayball who married Sarah Coombes. I have Dna data but need to establish whether "my" Moses was the son of Philip Hayball and Ann Forsey or of James Hayball and Sarah Cook. Any help appreciated. From Clinton Mann

I am pretty sure your Moses is the son of Philip Hayball and Ann Forsey, as I believe Moses who married my ancestor Mary Ann Sarah Quarm is the son of James Hayball. This Moses connected to my tree also married Dorcas Thomas and I believe Maria Hawker

2
England / Re: Catherine Fisher born 1871 in bermondsey, London
« on: Sunday 19 June 22 19:19 BST (UK)  »
Still working on this part of my family, and I have a couple of certificates of the kids. I would love to know how you know the Mmn is either Ellis or Swine on the certificates. Do you have copies of them? I'm still not sold on the Swine/Ellis link and am trying desperately to make your research fit as I think it's very probable, but I need to convince myself more! Would love to work with you on this, I'm located in the London area and am always going to the metropolitan archives

The ellis/swine link is definitely correct. I haven't worked on this branch in a while though as it's not my line but the tree of a relative. If you want to send me a private message I can send you my email address.

3
Devon / Re: Frank Henry Norman Wrighton
« on: Monday 12 July 21 23:36 BST (UK)  »
Daughter - Kathleen I B Littlejohns - 1913 Willesden MIddlesex
Mother's Maiden Name Wrighton
Volume3a Page 443

Kathleen Ivy Bernice Littlejohns - 16 Mar 1993 London
Probate Date 30 Sep 1993 - Probate Registry London

Sandra    This is my (Aunt Kitty) Katherine Littlejohns, My Mother, Patricia Margaret Littlejohns Blair
   is her sister. My Grandfather was Claude Septimus Litteljohns. many of the names I did hear through my mother who along with her sister were placed in an orphanage having lost everything during the war. Claude I see died at a very young age. Aunt Ivy, Aunt Winnie, Uncle Roland Wrighton she mentioned them as well. I am new to this site. I live in the states and often think of my mothers family and wonder and wish I could have known them as she did as well.
My mother was born March 17, 1915 London. she mentioned a brother Gilbert as well.
best, B.Blair Barnes     :)

We must be related. Claude’s father Edwin is the brother of my 2xgreat grandfather  - I am not sure if we have had previous contact, would love to make contact. I will message you.

4
Devon / Re: Frank Henry Norman Wrighton
« on: Monday 12 July 21 23:35 BST (UK)  »
Sister - Kathleen M G Wrighton married Claude S F Littlejohns - Paddington 1911 - 1a 127

Kathleen Mary Gayford Littlejohns,
Death Date 27 Jun 1961 London, England
Probate Date 17 Oct 1961 - Probate Registry London, England.

Widow - probate to Kathleen Ivy Bernice Littlejohns - spinster -

Sandra

Claude is my 1st cousin 3xremoved. He and Kathleen had 4 children I believe. I do have some contact with desecendents of Claudes brother not sure if they would know of any existing Wrightons.

5
Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark / Re: Sarah Littlejohns born c1822 Plymouth
« on: Monday 12 July 21 17:12 BST (UK)  »
This is quite intriguing. I have been looking at the Hayball baptisms in Jersey.
There are 3 children of Moses and Dorcas Thomas said to be his wife. The records list birth as well.
William John Thomas Hayball born 17 Nov 1847
Susanna Elizabeth Hayball born 3 Dec 1848
Sarah Ann Dorcas Hayball born 29 Feb 1850 ! (1850 shouldn't have been a leap year)

I searched for them on the 1851 census and found matches for ages and forenames for the two girls, but as daughters of a Mary Ann Worden widow b England age 26 dressmaker. In the household is John Le Montais married age 27 plasterer. On 20 Nove 1851 Dorcas Thomas sp 26 married a John Le Montais bac 27 plasterer. Can't find them in 1861, but in 1871 they have a daughter Caroline.
Has anyone found burial / death of Maria Hayball nee Hawker, last seen on 1841 census in Jersey

It certainly has given me a headache trying to work it all out. I can’t find a burial for Maria anywhere. Some of her children end up in Bristol area, but I can’t locate a death for her.

I am going to look at the other records you have found re: Dorcas and children as she was baffling me too. I haven’t found any marriage between Dorcas and Moses, so maybe they never actually married, just had kids together.

If Moses marries Sarah Littlejohns in 1857, then perhaps Maria had passed away by then and he was then able to remarry. I am convinced that this Sarah Littlejohns is actually Mary Ann Sarah Quarm the daughter of Robert Quarm and Sarah Temperance Littlejohns. Why she lied about her age and name and gave her grandfather as her father and her mothers occupation as his occupation we will probably never know. There must have been some reason why a lie was told.

6
US Lookup Requests / Re: Moses Hayball - death
« on: Monday 12 July 21 17:06 BST (UK)  »
i think the two Moses Hayballs of Chard were first cousins. The one that went to Jersey married as Moses Cook Hayball s/o James . So that sorts him out. The Moses son of Philip went to USA it seems.

I think both went to the US - there is one who died in 1867 and one who died in 1876 - so lots of confusing of the two. The one who married Sarah Combes didn’t go to Jersey, he is in some rest in the earlier census- when the one who married Maria Hawker is in Jersey.

7
Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark / Re: Sarah Littlejohns born c1822 Plymouth
« on: Monday 12 July 21 17:04 BST (UK)  »
Just to add to the confusion, there is a Sarah Littlejohn sentenced to 4 months hard labour in St Helier on 9th Dec 1848 and released 9th Apr 1849 for theft. Her age was given as 42.

I've noticed you've been writing Littlejohns but the indexes seem to suggest Littlejohn. Are they the same people?

Stewart

I am pretty sure this is Sarah Temperance Littlejohns born 1805 who married Robert Quarm not Sarah Littlejohns born 1822. The record is under her maiden name but, I am pretty sure it is her.

Yes on the marriage of Sarah Littlejohn to Moses Hayball it is Littlejohn, but they were both often transcribed each way Littlejohns or Littlejohn - even bad transcriptions too. The correct version is Littlejohns - Littlejohn tends to be more from the Scotland area.

8
Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark / Re: Sarah Littlejohns born c1822 Plymouth
« on: Monday 12 July 21 01:43 BST (UK)  »
I wonder if the marriage in 1857 of Sarah Littlejohns and Moses Hayball is actually Mary Ann Quarm.

Maybe for some reason Mary gave her mothers name, then named her mothers father as her father and her mothers occupation as her fathers occupation.

This mysterious Sarah Littlejohns born 1822 in Plymouth just does not seem to exist. She isn’t in any census prior to that marriage, no baptism, not death and I can’t find a marriage for Mary Ann Quarm, however we know she definitely ends up with Moses.

But if so why the lies? Names, age, father, fathers occupation etc. What was she hiding? She was definitely old enough or maybe Moses didn’t want people to know Mary was actually 8 years younger than she claimed as she looked older. So many questions.

9
Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark / Re: Sarah Littlejohns born c1822 Plymouth
« on: Monday 12 July 21 01:25 BST (UK)  »
So Mary Ann Quarm I mentioned, ive just discovered more info on here and she does appear to be the daughter of Robert Quarm and Sarah Temperance Littlejohns (born 1805)

Mary was born 1830, I am not sure when she marries Moses Hayball, he is quite her senior. But they have a child in 1860 in Wimborne, Hampshire - Mary Ann Quarm Hayball. This child is buried in 1860 in St Heliers. Mother Mary Ann dies in 1860 in Wimborne, possibly from childbirth.

Moses is in Wimborne still in 1861, so it looks like someone brought the child back to St Heliers when the mother died.

I am even more convinced now that Sarah born 1822, is possibly the aunt of Mary Ann Quarm, see above. Just need to try and confirm this fully.

Can anyone find the marriage of Mary Ann Quarm to Moses? It would likely have been after 1857 when he married Sarah Littlejohns born 1822.

This may become confusing because of the two Sarahs. Whom I believe are half sisters.


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