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Messages - Gilby

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1
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Monday 16 September 24 22:30 BST (UK)  »
This is probably the relevant McAllister family:

https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclare_Rural/Ballyhamage/109112/

Their son James would have been a couple of years older than Sarah Bryson.

2
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Monday 16 September 24 22:25 BST (UK)  »
Pezzy,

That newspaper article is a great find.  I think that is definitely your Sarah Bryson, and James McAllister was probably the father of James (Jim) Bryson/Watkins.  DNA testing should confirm that.

The thing that strikes me from the article is that £200 is a very substantial fine.  I think you could probably have bought a small house for that much in those days.  Whether or not James McAllister paid out is doubtful – cases like that could (and still do!) drag on for years without resolution.

I suspect the damages were that high because Sarah had had a child (i.e. James) as a result of the “seduction” and therefore it was basically a maintenance payment.

It does also make you wonder whether the relationship was consensual.  Though before I besmirch James McAllister’s character, it is interesting to note that James was called James.  You wouldn’t think Sarah would name her son after his father if she had been assaulted by him.

The article is also interesting because it clarifies what the relationship was between Sarah and the Andrew family.

Gilby

3
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Sunday 15 September 24 14:55 BST (UK)  »
If my daughter inherits matches on her X chromosome which I don’t have the same matches to the other descendant …. Has she inherited them from her father? I did have two tests ancestry and my heritage and I know they can test slightly differently.

She matches on another chromosome too that I don’t. I seem to only match my daughter and the other descendant on chromosome 10 and more strongly on that chromosome than my daughter.
I thought maybe an odd coincidence but then there are so many shared matches.

Yes my husband testing would be really helpful.

Your daughter will have X DNA from both you and your husband, but your husband will only have X DNA from his mother.

4
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Sunday 15 September 24 14:47 BST (UK)  »
Here’s a sort of tree showing this branch of the family.  I’ve put some of it in square brackets because I’m not completely sure about it and I don’t want people taking it as fact.

1.   [James Bryson (c1732-1803) of Holestone]
        a.   [John Bryson (c1764-1836) who emigrated to Pennsylvania]
                i.   [James Bryson (c1797-1835) m. Anne McConnell (c1804-1875)]
                        1.   Robert Bryson (c1830-1897) m. Sarah Caldwell (c1840-1888)
                                a.   James Bryson (1861-1893)
                                b.   Mary Bryson (1862-?)
                                c.   Annie Bryson (1864-?) m. Hugh O’Hara
                                d.   Martha Bryson (18666-?) m. William Gordon
                                e.   William Bryson (1869-1938) m. Mary Allen
                                f.   Ellen Bryson (1871-?) m. John J. Nevin
                                g.   Margaret Bryson (c1872-?) m. John Foster
                                h.   Agnes Bryson (1873-?)
                        2.   Mary Bryson (c1836-1903) m. William Samuel Bell (c1829-1895)
                                a.   James Bell (c1859-1891) to Pennsylvania
                                b.   William Bell (c1861-?)
                                c.   Robert Bell (1863-?)
                                d.   ____ Bell (1865-?)
                                e.   Annie Bell (c1866-1883)
                                f.   Samuel Bell (c1872-?)
                                g.   Mary Bell (c1872-1884)
                                h.   Agnes Bell (c1880-?)
                                i.   David Bell (c1882-?)

John Bryson who went to Pennsylvania had a son James who predeceased him.  Descendants of John have autosomal DNA matches to descendants of Robert Bryson whose father was called James.  Hence the suggestion that Robert was son of the James who was son of the John who emigrated.

There are strong hints that Robert and Mary were siblings.  However, Mary’s records suggest she was born around 1836-1839, after the death of her presumed father James.  It is possible that she was born shortly after his death, say in early 1836.

5
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Sunday 15 September 24 14:18 BST (UK)  »
1921 Census – Powick, Worcestershire
Henry Charles Watkins, head, 32 yrs 8 mo, widower, born Powick, Worcestershire, groundsman, working for the Humber Recreation Society.
Agnes Pruscella Watkins, dau, 3 yrs, mother dead, both St. George’s, Worcester.
Alice Sarah Watkins, mother, 61 yrs 3 mo, married, born Allensmore, Herefordshire, home duties.

1939 Register – 176 Siddeley Avenue, Coventry, Warwickshire
Henry Watkins, born 12 Oct 1889, groundsman.
Sarah Watkins, born 10 Apr 1897, unpaid domestic duties.
James Watkins, born 27 Apr 1918, aircraft wood machinist.
Agnes [P.] Jones [Watkins stoked out], born 5 Jun 1917, textile [worker].
Kenneth Watkins, born 7 Feb 1923, tool room.
Gordon Watkins, born 26 Apr 1924, at school.
Colin [Robert] Watkins, born 20 [?] Aug 1931, at school.
Robert Nevin, born 20 Sep 1898, store keeper.

6
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Sunday 15 September 24 14:08 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for the information about Sarah.

I think people were scared of the social stigma, so it was better not to talk about it at all.  Nowadays most of us think of it as an interesting back story, rather than something to be ashamed of.

My guess is it was more likely that James Bryson was left with a family (perhaps the Andrew family) rather than an institution.  If he had some fond memories of them then he probably wasn’t collected from there until a bit later, say after 1925.

If you get the chance to visit PRONI, it may be worth looking up the wills of some members of the Andrew family, e.g. John Andrew of Owensland who died in 1965.

7
Antrim / Re: Donegore - Bryson-Wilson
« on: Sunday 15 September 24 13:07 BST (UK)  »
Hi Pezzy,

I have the Margaret Andrew née Bryson as a 4th cousin 2x removed of Sarah Bryson (daughter of Ellen).  That is a very distant connection for Sarah to be staying with the Andrew family in 1911 for family reasons.  If Ann McConnell was a sister of Ellen McConnell, then the connection might have been something like 1st cousin 3x removed.

I have not worked out when Ellen Nevin née Bryson died.  Her husband was certainly still alive and living in Bridge Street in Ballymena in 1918 (fined for possession of a revolver – Ballymena Weekly Telegraph, 23rd Nov 1918).

You mentioned you and your daughter both match a descendant of Annie O’Hara née Bryson.  Is her match stronger than yours?  If you’ve tested on FTDNA you may be able to work out from the Chromosome Browser whether the connection is likely to be on the same line (e.g. your connection might have nothing to do with the Brysons).

Has your husband done a Y-DNA test?  That might help identify James’s father.

Who did Sarah Bryson eventually marry?

Gilby

8
Ireland / Re: Irish Genealogy Web Site
« on: Sunday 01 September 24 13:27 BST (UK)  »
Maybe the 1864-1870 deaths will appear  ??? ???

Well that would be a nice surprise!

9
Ireland / Re: Irish Genealogy Web Site
« on: Sunday 01 September 24 12:57 BST (UK)  »
Same for me, since yesterday.   :(

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