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Messages - De Tails

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Suffolk / Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« on: Friday 09 February 18 01:55 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks dawnsh - we're sorted.  :)

Suffolk / Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« on: Thursday 08 February 18 09:08 GMT (UK)  »
Paul said:

I may be a little late on this thread but I find it very interesting. De Tail in one of her posts mentioned Robert Leeder and Hannah from Rattlesden. I have researched this family for many years. Robert married Hannah Sewell in 1818 in Drinkstone. They came to Canada in 1825, with assisted passage, compliments of the parish of Rattlesden. They are the Leeders mentioned as living in Escott and Yonge Townships in Leeds County. This Robert was originally from Elmswell. His great grandfather, Thomas, moved to Elmswell about 1717 and married an Elmswell girl, Ann Markall. He was originally from the village of North Lopham just over the border in Norfolk. I can trace the Lopham Leeders back to the early 1500s.

As mentioned, there were several Leeder families that immigrated to Canada. I've tried to see if I could connect those families to mine but haven't had much luck. Looking at trees on ancestry it appears their descendents aren't really sure where their Leeders originated. From the Canadian census records I'm aware of the ones you have mentioned, including Robert and Jane.

Based on my research, though, it seems that a large majority of the English Leeders started in western Norfolk. That seems to be where the name is most common. Although it isn't a common name there are just enough to cause a lot of confusion.


I have spent considerable time in tracking down and trying to eliminate all Joshua Leeder/Leaders in England who weren't the pauper/cripple who apparently went to Canada. In the end, and in trying to trace the parents of Robert Leader/Leader bap. 1766, I have ended up working on what has become a "reconstruction of families" exercise and I only wish I had remembered what Paul said back then! He's quite right, all links *seem* to lead north! At this rate I'm going to end up with a one-name study!

"They" did try to warn me that this is a potentially addictive hobby!  ;D

Suffolk / Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« on: Thursday 08 February 18 08:58 GMT (UK)  »
Good Evening all and Happy New Year!

It's quite awhile since I've been back here and there's been a lot of progress in the research on my Leader/Leeder and Aldrich/Aldrige line. Despite a *lot* of work, I still can't determine the Cripple/Pauper meaning so will have to wait for parish records to go online - if any survive from Yaxley.

Joshua Leeder b. 1831, Yaxley, Suffolk and his Irish Elizabeth/Mary Elizabeth Armstrong b 1832 (resident 1861 onwards in Amaranth, Dufferin, Ontario, Canada) remain frustratingly elusive with respect to where they got married (not the 1860 Hartismere record!) I can see why other Canadian branches of the family have claimed them.

However: major success with finally tracking down William Leeder/Leader's birth in Yaxley. Turned out to be either 1806 or 1807** - January 25, in Yaxley, and the record clearly confirms that Robert Leader and his wife Margaret late Moy are the parents. That confirms the help which you all gave in pointing me in the right direction.

Our Family Tree is online on my website and this is regularly updated - please see Profile for URL.

Once again - Many Thanks for helping a then Newbie.  :D

** 1806 at top of page and 1807 inserted later - with thanks to JoAnn Clark.

Suffolk / Re: Any Knowledge of this Ipswich Photographer
« on: Thursday 20 August 15 12:19 BST (UK)  »
Hi - found this in passing and may well be too late. But: if you have access to that big commercial site, check out gnboreham's family tree - photo of Fred and Charlotte Leader and family has a strong resemblance.


Suffolk / Re: 1851: Meaning of Cripple/Pauper
« on: Thursday 20 August 15 11:54 BST (UK)  »
Hi Paul - I'm a bit late on your bit late, but interested in your post. I'm now reasonably confident that my William's father was Robert Leeder bap. Thrandeston 23/11/1766, first marriage Hannah Keeley on 30/01/1787 (bur. 26/12/1788). Robert and Hannah had a son John (bur. 03/03/1789).

Robert's second marriage was with  Margaret Moy (b abt 1770) 03/11/1789, both marriages in Yaxley. They had William (b 18/06/1796, d. 6 days later), Mary b? (bur. 13/03/1798), Sarah b 07/05/1799, Susan b 30/08/1801, Henry b 17/09/1809.  I still haven't found William's record, but our family date is 1804 which fits the sequence.

[Robert's parents seem to be Robert b. abt 1728 Thrandeston and Sarah b.abt 1730. His siblings are Jonathan 1769, Jane 1770, and possibly Sarah 1753, Elizabeth 1755, Mary 1757, making Robert the middle child.]

Establishing these started with the help from the good people on this forum - for which major thanks - and then I have Census and other data, so as I say reasonably confident.

I still haven't found immigration dates but they must be between 1851 and 1861 based on the Censuses.

I'm also still head-banging about Joshua the "pauper/cripple" as the Joshua in Canada is married to an Irish Elizabeth, not the English Elizabeth Robinson from Yaxley (m. 1860). I suspect that this Joshua and Elizabeth stayed in England as the transformation is otherwise huge. I've also got a Joshua's Probate to the widow Elizabeth in 1873, but it's in Holburn, Middlesex and that sounds a bit far afield. (If it is them they had five children 1861 - 1868).

Anyone know if Elizabeth Robinson in Yaxley was Irish? (Or, did Joshua actually marry Amelia Baker - Hartismere 4a613 - if so the joke is on everyone who's put Amaranth Joshua in their tree!)


Suffolk / Re: Tip: Could they have met?
« on: Tuesday 03 December 13 08:05 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks mohican - very interesting! What a mine of information this list is!  :D

Suffolk / Re: Tip: Could they have met?
« on: Thursday 28 November 13 07:04 GMT (UK)  »
Hi greensleeves, that would certainly work for family dates. Do you happen to have any idea when the affordability of a ticket would have moved low enough for working class folk (e.g., Agricultural Laborers) to purchase? (I was assuming that they would walk/hitch cart-rides because of expense.)


Suffolk Lookup Requests / Re: Request: Birth William LEADER 1804
« on: Wednesday 13 November 13 06:28 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Annette

Have found a few baptisms on familysearch for children of Robert and Margaret:

William Leader bp.18/6/1796 Suffolk (no actual place given) - must be the one buried 24/6/1796 Yaxley.
Sarah Leeder bp.7/5/1799 Yaxley
Susan Leeder bp.30/8/1801 Yaxley - must be the one buried 1/1/1817 Yaxley
Henry Leader bp.17/9/1809 Yaxley - buried 31/5/1823 Yaxley

Doing a search in just Yaxley between 1789 and 1810 it looks to me like the original records might be in bit of a state as some entries have no surname or parents shown which could be why there is no obvious entry for William although he would slot in quite neatly between Susan and Henry shown above.


Thank you for checking this out. I took it from the SRO's reply that the records were a bit fragmented - hence my appeal here!

I do appreciate everyone's help - informed speculation is very useful as although nothing is proven, quite a bit can be eliminated. It's really exciting to have possibly gone back another generation or two, as "1804" was it!  :)


Right - I'd best be off and get to work on this!

Suffolk Lookup Requests / Re: Request: Birth William LEADER 1804
« on: Wednesday 13 November 13 05:54 GMT (UK)  »
This could be your next generation back again


See (but beware the spellings Leadir/Leder etc)for more of their children.

Thrandeston parish is on NW boundary of Yaxley very close.

Prior to this there are lots of Leader burials in Brome, St Mary.  Again a neighbouring parish. 


This is invaluable local knowledge K - my thanks. The names ring some bells with some of the Canadian Leaders which I didn't think were related (see my previously referenced post).

I thought I'd tried every variation of spelling of the start/middle of the name, but I completely forgot about the ending!  :o

Best -

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