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Messages - Cliffelinks65

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1
Hi Sherry,

I have the same marriages for Isaac, Betty, Mary Ann and Priscilla.....and some follow up with their children too.  I also have a possible marriage for Sarah, baptised Dec 1830, to a John Pickles.

Phillis is a bit of an enigma - she shows in 1841 as a daughter, and then in 1851 as a granddaughter. In that census record there are also several other grandchildren - James Bancroft aged 20, Samuel Wallbank 9, and another Butterfield, Ellen 2.  I also have Phillis, later in life, married to a William Smith.  All a bit confusing, isn't it - no wonder we make errors in this activity!


I agree that Samuel also looks like a missing baptism...so I'm recording him with the theories I put forward as to his birth. I'm pretty sure he is part of those 4 families in Hope St.......


2
Lots to catch up on here.....

The Turnpike information is mostly new to me, and is therefore much appreciated.

One thing that bothers me is "li" - I thought that was an alternative abbreviation of the pound sign £, from the Latin "libra"?  Surely they can't have been expected to pay that amount in pounds??????
Back to the reference books on that one.....

As regards the Two Laws lot, I have more or less the same information for John Butterfield (1793) married to Martha Sharp.

I have his Father as Thomas, married to Elizabeth Sunderland....but with different children....so I am going back to look more closely at this.

I also agree that Thomas was son of John Butterfield and Mary Sharp, and that it is a best guess.

As regards John and Martha's children, I have the same information for the ones you have...but I don't have Henry, Jane or John in my file.

However, I do have a Phillis, born in 1846 and showing on the 1851 census for this family.   So another thing to look at....

I have marriages for Mary Ann, Sarah and Priscilla as well. Do you have these?

I agree with you about all the info on Ancestry about John of Thwaites with a father Peter.....I have this John as a different individual altogether, and not the one we are talking about.

So, altogether, more investigation required here.....
Back soon.....




3
I should point out that Susan's record is from 1851 census, not 1841.  My omission from last post.

4
Almost certainly related, I think....it seems highly unlikely to me that in 1841 you would have Butterfield families in the same street who were not. The question is how, and that has been my problem here.

However, it's funny that writing it down in my last post has made me revisit what I had...and today I have come up with the following theories (hope they makes sense!) :-

In the 1841 Census for Hope St, Keighley, I have the following -

In Back Hope Street, we have Martin b 1788 with his wife Jane b 1786, and a child James aged 6,born 1835.

I think that Martin was born to a Grace Butterfield b 1864 and documented with no named father.  Grace was a daughter of John Butterfield and Sarah Wadsworth and his wife was Jane Bottomley.

In Hope Street we have 3 families - Samuel's being one of them.  There is also Thomas b 1811 with wife Martha b 1807 and daughter Sarah b 1840.

I have Thomas as the son of Martin, and in the 1851 census this shows Jane as Thomas's mother, Martin having died about 1846 I think.

The third family is John b1801, with wife Ann b 1808, and children Hannah b 1834, Martha b 1837 and Sharp b 1839.

The 3 families in Hope Street are very near to each other on the census forms.  At first glance, John's family didn't "connect" either, but looking more closely, I think that John was born to Abraham Butterfield and Rachel Waddington, apparently their only child....

Now here's the thing...Abraham Butterfield was also born to John and Sarah Wadsworth, like Grace, Martin's mother.

So, if this is right, then we have three of the four families connected. What about Samuel then?  Two suggestions - I can find no baptism record at all for him, but I think he is either 1) another child of Abraham and Rachel, and therefore John's brother, or 2) he is another illegitimate child of Grace, which is also possible, although there is a bit of a gap in ages. 

Additionally, I now have a Susan, living alone in Back Hope Street aged 73 (new fact today, I had missed it earlier). This Susan seems to be the daughter of a Joseph Butterfield, married to Mary Hey. Joseph was a brother of the John Butterfield who was married to Sarah Wadsworth.

Instinct tells me that Samuel must therefore be related to the others, and I think these two theories could confirm it, so for the moment I am going with them until I can find documentation to prove otherwise.

Does all this make any sense??!

Cliffelinks65

5
Sorry, I should have said the 1841 census for Keighley.

6
Hi Sherry,

Really interesting info about the turnpikes - I have learned something this afternoon!

Also, apologies for not replying to your earlier post with the details about Norland Field Farm, somehow I missed that.

I agree with you that this may not be connected to "our" Butterfields...and yet I suppose that "in the mists of time" it might well be. However, it has prompted me to realise that I haven't spent a lot of time with any links to the Halifax area, so that's going on the "to do" list.

However, indirectly, this has lead me to a problem I have with some other Butterfield information in the 1841 census, and I wonder if you, or anyone seeing this, could help.

The census shows 3 Butterfield families living in Hope St (3), and another one in Back Hope Street.

I have traced 3 of these, but one of the Hope St families eludes me. This is Samuel Butterfield, 45 b 1796, married to "Elenor" Lambert, also shown as 45, with children Mary, Luke, Sarah, Elizabeth Susanna, Mark and Lambert.

I can trace this family forwards, but Samuel's parentage is missing in my records. I found a Samuel today born in Ovenden in 1799 (hence thinking about Halifax...) but he isn't the right one - wrong wife, wrong children etc, so I am stumped.

The odd thing is that the other three families here are traceable and broadly linked. It just seems strange that there were 4 families close by in that area....

Any thoughts, anyone?

Cliffelinks65

7
Hello again,

Just seen your message, Sherry - thank you.

I do have this Ann's details, showing with two illegitimate children...but I have Ellen as a name, and not Emily, with John Ellis, so will need to check out that name again. I have a note with John Ellis's record showing him as John Ellis "Kitchell", which was obviously an error in transcribing. The original document is clearly "Mitchell".
 
Just looking quickly at my files this is another line I haven't followed through so it's just as well it's raining again....!

I'm intrigued by "Dangerous Corner" at Two Laws....?  I wonder which one.... it's a very winding road up there.....

Cliffelinks65

8
Hello Sally again,

No more info about Elijah I'm afraid, except what has been added by Sherry here, and certainly no further forward with my James - it is still a choice of two! Whoever he is, he ended up in Kildwick, so its not clear whether he came from Stanbury or Newsholm, although Mary in Stanbury, and Isaac and Betty in Newsholm both have clear places in the tree. I don't really see any way forward with this one.

Thanks also for the reminder about Henry!

Cliffelinks65

9
You have raised a very relevant point here - when I started researching and revisited the area a couple of years ago after many years of living elsewhere, it struck me forcibly how remote parts of this area still seem to be.

Of course the Aire Valley itself is really built up now but you don't have to stray far from it to be in open countryside. Travelling from Howarth to Stanbury, and then across the valley to Harehills and Two Laws and back towards Keighley it was striking to think of so many Butterfields living around there 200 or so years ago....and I was left with the strong impression that there must be close relationships between them. This encouraged me to further the research and although I haven't connected everyone, I have connected enough of them to give rise to the tree I now have....and that, as they say, has "grown and grown". I constantly revisit it to correct the amateur errors I made at that time, and I have no doubt there are many more to check out more thoroughly. This is the pleasure of the activity!

In very general terms, it seems to me that Butterfields moved into the towns from the outlying areas as a result of the wool trade. Some settled nearer to Keighley, some went over the hills to the Colne area and  later some moved on to Bradford. There are "early" Butterfields in Bingley too. Again, as a generalisation, farming was supplanted by mill workers at various levels, and with varying degrees of success, e.g the Butterfields of Cliffe Castle being easily the most successful.

My tree also shows evidence of Butterfields moving to America and Australia, although I haven't followed up many of those instances yet.

The biggest downside of all this is the number of Butterfields with the same Christian name - in this case "John" - there are so many! I suppose this applies in most family research, but it can be very frustrating. 

I think you may be right about church attendance too - I think a previous poster in this thread mentioned that people possibly jumped on the nearest cart to take their children to be baptised, and were not particularly fussy about which church they went to - I have many examples of baptisms within the same family being performed in varied locations.

I also wish there were more Non Conformist records available, which I think would help a lot - hopefully these will come in time.

Rambling over....

Cliffelinks65

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