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Messages - PAK

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1
Staffordshire / Re: Thomas Kent and his son Charles (Leek and/or Uttoxeter)
« on: Sunday 25 February 24 01:19 GMT (UK)  »
Just reporting in case anyone finds this thread when researching the same area in future.
I have now found that Charles and Ann Kent were witnesses at the wedding of Mary Kent, 9th of the the "Uttoxeter 10". That clinches it for me - I am recording that Charles was the eldest child of Thomas and Ann who then had two children in Cheddleton then 10 in Uttoxeter.
There may have been 3 in Cheddleton as I have also found a record of George Kent, who died and was buried there on 17/4/1808 aged 1. Charles' eldest sister was baptised at the same church shortly after. His parents are not recorded so I am simply noting it unless and until I can find proof, which seems unlikely.
I think I can draw this to a close now. Thanks to everyone who helped.

2
Staffordshire / Re: Thomas Kent and his son Charles (Leek and/or Uttoxeter)
« on: Wednesday 21 February 24 20:02 GMT (UK)  »
OK - latest on this question.

Charles Kent, sawyer, was married in 1831 to Hannah Heath, and they are found in the 1841 and 1851 census, so not mine. Quite possibly it's his father Thomas who is the joiner in 1841 and 1851 - as suggested by ciderdrinker. That would explain why he is recorded, whilst Ann in Uttoxeter is shown as widowed.

Mine was a boot and shoe maker in 1834, 1841 and 1851 so there is a link of sorts to a father who was a tanner at one time i.e.Thomas as recorded for the father of several of the 12. In fact, the only reference to Leek for my Charles is the 1851 census which shows him as born in Leek, although residing in Uttoxeter by that time.

To recap - the Cheddleton 2 are related to the Uttoxeter 10 because two of their children are shown as cousins later. That still leaves the original questions – is Charles the sibling of the later 12 and, if so, why the gap between his birth in 1803 and Elizabeth, born in Cheddleton in 1808?

In addition, it raises another question. Supposing CK the sawyer was the son of Thomas and Ann nee Clewlow? Where are my CK's parents?

And then there is another possibility. Years ago, someone suggested that my Thomas was baptised in Leigh, Staffs on 18.5.83. I dismissed this at the time as I relied on the 1851 census showing him as born in Leek. I now wonder if this might have been an enumerator error - writing Leek instead of Leigh. As against that, Leigh is much closer to Uttoxeter than Leek so I would have thought that the enurmerator would have got that right.

At present, my plan will be to show them as some sort of dotted line on the family tree with an explanatory note. But, as others will know well, loose ends like this are very frustrating. So any more info / interest will be very welcome.

My second plan is to have a lie down......

3
Staffordshire / Re: Thomas Kent and his son Charles (Leek and/or Uttoxeter)
« on: Thursday 01 February 24 12:30 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks to both. Ciderdrinker - I found a census showing the daughter of one of the Uttoxeter 10 residing with the son of one of the Cheddleton 2, and recorded as his cousin. So these 12 must be siblings.

However, it's a good point about the similar occupations. I'm flogging through all the data I can find about various Thomas Kents in these parts of Staffordshire, in the hope that I can eliminate all but the right one. There is a gap of about 5 years betwene the birth of Charles in Leek, then the first of the Cheddleton two, so I am inclined to agree that there are 2 separate Thomases.

I'll post again if I can pinpoint some proof - thanks again.

4
Staffordshire / Thomas Kent and his son Charles (Leek and/or Uttoxeter)
« on: Monday 29 January 24 11:44 GMT (UK)  »
I posted about this a few years ago, have now found out more via Familysearch, Ancestry and Findmypast, but there is still a mystery and I am wondering if anyone has access to any other records that could help.

I have traced my ancestors back to my great-great-grandfather Charles Kent, born in Leek, Staffordshire, where he was baptised on 11.9.1803. His parents were shown as Thomas and Ann. I know that at some time Charles moved to Uttoxeter where he married in 1831 and is shown there in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
I found a marriage on 3.10.1802 at Leek between Thomas Kent and Ann Clewlow, so am assuming that they are the parents of Charles. So far, so good, but then I have been trying to identify what happened to them next.
Meanwhile, I found baptisms of 2 children in Cheddleton in 1808 and 1809 with parents Thomas & Ann Kent. And then another 10 children in Uttoxeter at regular intervals between 1813 and 1832 with parents Thomas & Ann Kent – who are found with several of these children in Uttoxeter in 1841. The 1881 census shows the son of one of the Cheddleton children living with the daughter of one of the “Uttoxeter 10” and shown as cousins. So that means the Cheddleton 2 and the Uttoxeter 10 were siblings.

But it leaves Charles uncertain – were his parents (Thomas and Ann) the same as the parents of the other 12? Effectively, I either have 12 great-great-uncles and aunts – or none!

My instinct up to now has been that Thomas was from Uttoxeter, married Ann in Leek and lived there until after Charles was born, then moved to Cheddleton and then Leek.

BUT then there is a Thomas Kent in Regent Street, Leek, in 1841 (aged 58) and 1851 (aged 68). He was a joiner, said to be born in Leek, but I haven’t yet found any birth records for him in Leek or the adjacent parishes of Cheddleton, Endon, Bagnall, or Norton-le-Moors. He is shown as married in 1851 but no wife recorded, so presumably died.

The gap between his birth in 1803 and the next in 1808 seems unusually wide and it could be that his father Thomas was the one in Leek in the 1841 and 1851 censuses, especially if he married someone named Ann.

So my questions are:
1) Are there any other marriages for Thomas Kent between ,say, 1800 and 1808?
2) Is there any other record of the Thomas found in Leek in  1841-51, between 1783 and 1841?

I guess there is little chance but Rootschat often surprises me!

5
The Common Room / Re: Ernest Victor Bickerdike
« on: Tuesday 05 December 23 01:46 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for the interest shown and replies received so far. It seems certain that EV and Harriet had at least two children viz Ethel Howard b 1895 and Doris Ellen b 1898. Freebmd shows Ethel Howard as "Bickerdite" which is why I missed it. However, my main question is why I can't find any reference to Ernest Victor Bickerdike anywhere (and I have searched for him as Ernest V, and surname Bickerd*).
Nor is there anything for Harriet Bickerdike, other than in Yorkshire where the family name clearly originates. However, the 1911 census shows Harriet (now Goddard) as born London and living in Hastings, with a daughter Doris Ellen of the right age, so I agree this must be ours. But then that creates more questions :
1) where were they (EV, Harriet and daughters) in 1901?
2) what happened to EV?
3) when did Harriet marry Goddard?
4) is it possible that EV changed his name to George Bickerdike Goddard, or is this too far into the realms of fantasy?
As I say, this is a distant branch and I am not able to pursue subsequent generations yet. But I would like to be able to quote some subsequent info on EV and Harriet beyond 1893 (or now, 1898).
But more immediately, after considering all the ramifications well into the early hours, most of all I would like some sleep!  :D

6
The Common Room / Ernest Victor Bickerdike
« on: Monday 04 December 23 12:10 GMT (UK)  »
This is a very distant branch of my family tree but I have never come across such an impenetrable brick wall so am wondering if anyone more inspired than I can help.
My relative is Harriet Clarke. She was born at Kenton Street in Bloomsbury, London. She lived at home with her parents up to the 1891 census, then married Ernest Victor Bickerdike at the Emmanuel church in Hastings on 26.3.94. He was a bootmaker, of Hughenden Place in Hastings, but no subsequent records have been found for either of them.
In fact, I can't find any record at all of Ernest Victor Bickerdike, other than on their marriage record where his equally anonymous father has the same name. Thereafter no Harriet Bickerdike either. I've looked at Ancestry, Familysearch, Findmypast and Freebmd - even Googled them but all without success.
All very frustrating for a completer/finisher. Does this ring bells with anyone? I was going to post this under Sussex, but almost all Bickerdikes are in Yorkshire so that might be equally relevant.

7
The Common Room / Re: Posterity
« on: Tuesday 22 August 23 19:38 BST (UK)  »
Thanks to all for the comments so far, and even those who rightly admonish me for not including sources are, I know, well meant.

The problem with that is just the sheer volume. When I refer to a "book" it's not just one but 12 - and I am still working on several of them. There may be more as I bring together smaller files to group into "books". On average each one has about 50 pages of A4. The largest book file has 83 pages and holds 294Kb of data.

In my own defence, I do preface each one with a note that refers to my main sources of information - Ancestry, Findmypast and Familysearch. And I usually add a footnote where it comes from an individual reminiscence. Actually, that's rather better than so many of the family trees which Ancestry seems happy to publish, frequently with no source data.

Sadly, my own line will end when my daughter (who has no children) is no longer around, so I thought it would be helpful for interested parties in general to access it. In any case, she has little interest and all I can expect her to do is to ensure that it is passed on to some reputable organisation.

I did wonder about setting up my own website which would basically be a list of names and very brief details (location, dobs and dods) - then inviting people to contact whichever organisation becomes my genealogical beneficiary for more details. Even that will probably take a year or so and, contrary to my immediate family's belief, I do have a life!

Any further comments are very welcome so that I might eventually reach a conclusion.

8
The Common Room / Posterity
« on: Monday 21 August 23 19:16 BST (UK)  »
I've been digging up ancestors for many years now and I don't know how many people I have recorded but it is well into 4 figures - maybe even 5. A recent significant birthday has made me think about how I should ensure that others can use my records if they are useful.

I set each major branch of my family into a "book", within which there are several chapters. Each chapter starts with a chart, and then some narrative about the individuals charted. I deliberately set out not to use genealogical software such as Genuki, because I want to make it available to all. Hence, I simply use MSWord - it can be a challenge constructing a chart but it works eventually.

One weakness that I realised many years too late is that I should have cross-referenced to my sources but it's too late to go through it all now.

So I wonder if anyone has advice as to where I should direct that my records should be passed on when I eventually shuffle off to join the ancestors. There is a local Family History Society but of course they are only concerned with the immediate locality and there are people all over the world listed.

It probably ought to be one of the big players so that they can make it available online. Has anyone else thought of this and are there are any suggestions?

Thanks in anticipation.

9
Canada / Canada bmd if not on major websites
« on: Saturday 10 June 23 20:57 BST (UK)  »
Looking for details of a family branch I have recently discovered in Canada - mainly Alberta but of course other areas have occasional links. I have tried Familysearch, Ancestry and Findmypast and they all seem to be a bit thin on the ground.

Just as an example, I am looking for marriage dates for a family named Sturge in the mid 20th century, but marriage data seems to be largely unrecorded.

Can anyone suggest other websites?

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