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Messages - crazyshotgug69

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1
Travelling People / Re: John Cash or John Doran
« on: Sunday 17 March 19 18:54 GMT (UK)  »

John Cash, born about 1791, Wexford, County Wexford, Ireland. Married Elizabeth Ryan who was born 1795, Enniscorthy, County Wexford, Ireland. Death was 1870, Wexford, Wexford, Ireland. Elizabeth's parents were John Ryan and Susy MacNelly.

Enniscorthy Catholic parish registers at National Library of Ireland
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0593
Baptisms and marriages began 1794. Deaths register Oct. 1815-1880. Confirmations 1848-1880.
1861 census for Enniscorthy is also here, after all the registers.

Edit. Registers are various dates. The baptism register, starting 1794 on the first microfilm is neatly laid out with beautiful handwriting. It seems to be a copy of a baptism register on the second microfilm, which is untidy, with entries crammed on page.
Looking at Eliza's baptism in the register on the first microfilm, a note in the last column is "militia". So Eliza Ryan's father, John Ryan, was a member of the militia.
 Eliza was born near the start of the wars with France which lasted until 1815. John Ryan may have been moved around Ireland and Britain as part of his militia service. He may have gone on to join a regular army regiment. On the other hand he may have done all his military service in Ireland. There was unrest in Ireland at the time, threatened French invasions during the decade and rebellions in 1798. County Wexford was a centre for one of the risings.
Sponsors at Eliza's baptism were Ben Wildrife (?) and Anne Myles. Do those names mean anything to you? Wildrife is an unusual name. Perhaps another militia member? Have you looked for Wildrife entries in Enniscorthy parish registers or in Tithe Aplotttment Books or Griffiths Valuation or census to see if it was a local surname? Sponsors were often, although not always, relatives.
You could browse the baptism registers to look for baptisms of other children of the marriage or possible relatives. Have you searched the marriage register for marriage of John Ryan & Suzy Macnelly? The register began 1794. It's possible they moved from elsewhere. Enniscorthy is unusual in having a death register starting so early - 1815. If I were you I would look in it for possible deaths of Ryan and Macnelly/Macnally/Macneilly  families. Search for Nelly/Nally/Neilly too in case the Mac was missing from name.
Finding an Irish census for 1861 is a bonus. I suggest you browse it, looking for any MacNelly/MacNally/Nally &c. and Ryan. The census was taken only a few years after Griffiths' Valuation.
You're lucky to have such a wealth of early documents to consult. And even some with perfect handwriting. Some of us have gone cross-eyed trying to read scrawls in parish registers when researching our ancestors.  ;D

Alrighty, thanks for the help. I would not be surprised if they travelled around a lot, they do seem to have married a traveller family and if keeping to tradition, irish travellers only really married other irish travellers.

2
Travelling People / Re: John Cash or John Doran
« on: Sunday 17 March 19 09:53 GMT (UK)  »
1. Re John Cash senior.
Where did you obtain the information about death of John Cash in 1870? I looked on Irish civil records site for his death registration and couldn't find it. I searched death registrations for all of Ireland.
 Irish Genealogy.ie
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
Or was it Elizabeth Cash who died in 1870? Re-reading that paragraph in your opening post, the death information could relate to either John or Elizabeth.  :-\  Did whoever it was die in Wexford Town/Wexford Registration district ? Where and when did the other spouse die? Who was informant of each death?

When and where did John and Elizabeth marry? Where did you find the information about their marriage? What religious denomination were they? Who were witnesses?
You say John Cash was born "about 1791". Where does this information come from? Have you looked for his baptism? Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths began in Ireland in 1864. Before then you need to search church registers. Many Irish churches don't have registers dating back pre 1800. Some don't start until mid 19th century.  Catholic registers are free to view on National Library of Ireland site. If he was Catholic, who were baptism sponsors (godparents)?
I assume that John Cash born approximately 1791 in Wexford was John Cash senior, father to the John  Cash whom you say was a famous piper.
What was occupation of John Cash senior? Have you looked for him on Griffiths' Valuation and on Tithe Aplottments?

Re. John Cash junior, aka John Cash, the piper.
You say that he had 2 wives. Are you sure it was the same man? Where and when did he marry each wife? Polly might have been short for another name.  Have you found a death registration for either wife? Who were their children? Years and places of births? Religion?
Where and when was John Cash junior born? Have you found a baptism for him? If it was a Catholic baptism, who were sponsors (godparents) ? Did he have any brothers and sisters?
Where and when did John Cash junior die?

 Elizabeth Ryan. What is your source for her birth information and for her parents' names?

2. Re John Doran (the one born c.1823)
What is your source for his birth and his marriage?
When and where was the marriage? Have you searched for a church record of the marriage ?
Who were their children? Names, places and approximate years of birth?
Have you searched Griffiths' Valuation?
When & where did John Doran and his wife, Jean die?
What religion were they?

Can you give us dates and places for John Doran, the piper?

Have you done any Irish family history research before?

Answering these questions will save us time in the long -run and may give you ideas for other resources you can try for yourself. Irish civil registration website, many Irish Catholic parish registers, Griffiths' Valuation and Tithe Aplottment Books are all free online.
Finding information about people born in Ireland before 1800 isn't easy and is impossible in some cases. Going back a further generation will be harder still. What I said on another of your threads about problems of pre-1700 English research applies to Ireland pre-1800.

I found all of this information here:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GMDK-R16

This is where it says everything. Hopefully it should answer the questions aswell.

3
Travelling People / John Cash or John Doran
« on: Saturday 16 March 19 14:33 GMT (UK)  »
Hello, today I am requesting some help with going further back from some of my distant relatives.

1. John Cash
John Cash was a famous traveller and piper sometimes known as "Cash the Piper". His father was also John Cash who I am attempting to go back from.
John Cash, born about 1791, Wexford, County Wexford, Ireland. Married Elizabeth Ryan who was born 1795, Enniscorthy, County Wexford, Ireland. Death was 1870, Wexford, Wexford, Ireland. Elizabeth's parents were John Ryan and Susy MacNelly.

Edit: John "Cash the Piper" Cash has two recorded wives. Mary Conners (family search) and Polly Conners (read from the internet). Not sure which one though.

Further Edit: Polly could be a nickname for Mary, read on ancestry.

2. John Doran
Johnny Doran, another famous traveller and piper was the great grandson of John Cash on his grandmother's side. On his Doran side however, it goes up to another John Doran.
John Doran born 1823, County Wexford, Ireland. Married Jean Breen about 1847 in County Wexford, Ireland.

Any information on either of these families would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

4
Travelling People / Re: Someone
« on: Saturday 16 March 19 09:16 GMT (UK)  »
You seem a little vague and though you mention names, you do not explain how they connect to you or Augustine Bearse.

I would advise reading the link provided by MS and perhaps starting your research again with yourself, then your parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on, and collecting appropriate certificates as you go to ensure you are following the correct families.

A DNA test might give you a bit of clarity (or confuse the issue even more) however keep in mind that ethnicity results are not to be taken as gospel despite the advertising campaigns.

Added: I have not read the links in full nor other threads on the same subject so similar comments may already have been made. Apologies if that is the case.

Hello, thank you do you know where I can buy certs?

5
Travelling People / Re: Someone
« on: Saturday 16 March 19 00:45 GMT (UK)  »
If you google Augustine Bearse there is a lot of information out there including family trees.
Carol

Have you read information about Augustine Bearse on WikiTree? In particular read the sections on Disputed Origin, Disputed Spouse and Biography. *

See also https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/bearse/320
"Franklin BeArce invented  ÖÖ serious genealogists should not perpetuate his 'research'. "

Augustine's wife, Mary, having been a Native American "princess" seems to have been a myth. Evidence for Augustine being a Romany is disputed.

An example on how evidence may be misinterpreted:
It says on one site that Augustine "was listed on a ship after Martha Wilde and her daughter, Mary Ö..". Another says "he was travelling with Martha Wilde and her daughter, Mary". The latter statement seems to imply that Augustine and Martha and her daughter might have been connected. The evidence shows only that they were on the same ship. They may have been listed consecutively because they boarded at same time. Some family historians make 2+2 = 5.

These events took place in early 17th century. Those trees and research give Augustine a birth year c.1618, going by estimated age of 20 when he emigrated.
 Researching pre 1700 is very difficult. E.g. 2 of my lines remained in the same 2 English parishes from mid 1500s (start of parish registers) until 1800s. They occupied land so their names are on rent-rolls and leases;  many made wills; some were qualified to vote, in an era when most men didn't; one line featured regularly on Recusant Rolls; there are a lot of documents in county and National Archives under their names. Despite all that evidence, I cannot get back with certainty beyond 1690. I'm not even 100% sure about the generation between 1690-1730.

*Edit. WikiTree has restrictions on who can add information about people born pre-1700 because of difficulties researching this time. The pre-1700 section on WikiTree has useful guidance on reliable and unreliable sources and the difference between source and evidence.

Ah thank you for this. Gives me a bit more insight. I looked at a Hillier who married someone whoís cousin married an Irish traveller!😂. Nothing that important, but to be fair the Irish traveller was in the family of John doran and is a direct descendant of John Cash. Iím going to look for some more tomorrow, see if I can find anything else on this side.

Would you perhaps have any recommendations for when Iím looking about this?

6
Travelling People / Re: Someone
« on: Friday 15 March 19 07:45 GMT (UK)  »
' I mostly need paid accounts on websites to access these family trees. '

That is likely - research usually costs money, hobbies are not usually free.

'I cannot exactly remember how he is connected to my family'

Perhaps you should write down the family relationships in some form or other - there are free programmes out there to enter details.
 If you cannot remember, then are you going to record what we find?

Yes I would record what you found and I am going to attempt to go back through my Hillier side to him again soon.

7
Travelling People / Re: Someone
« on: Thursday 14 March 19 23:41 GMT (UK)  »
If you are unsure of the family connection and Without names and dates of your family, I'm not sure what it is that you want help with?
Carol
Right, Iíll try to explain the situation to you. My direct family line is Webb. My motherís side is nothing to do with gypsies and travellers other than my maternal grandfathers surname being Corey. My paternal side however. Well my great grandmother is a Hillier. Now I believe this side to be full of Romany gypsies and just general gorgers. The Hillier side is where Bearse comes in and there is a lot of proof for being potentially Romany. Then my great great great grandmother. Esther Southwell. I believe this side to be a mix of Romany and Irish Traveller.

My main Webb family, however, are potentially gypsies, but the only things which set off that alarm are occupations etc.

If I provided dates and names would you be interested in any of these sides?

8
Travelling People / Re: Someone
« on: Thursday 14 March 19 23:23 GMT (UK)  »
If you google Augustine Bearse there is a lot of information out there including family trees.
Carol
I have searched for this, however, I mostly need paid accounts on websites to access these family trees. And since he moved to America, I cannot exactly remember how he is connected to my family, but we are in England.

9
Travelling People / Re: Someone
« on: Thursday 14 March 19 22:51 GMT (UK)  »
Why do you think you are connected to Augustine Bearse (when, where, how?)
Are you able to provide any assistance?

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