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Messages - chrisos

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 7
1
Kerry / Re: Underwritten Memorial Deed
« on: Wednesday 01 November 23 07:14 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Elwyn
Thank you very much for answering my question.  And yes, with your help I have been able to navigate my way through the Lands Index.  Many thanks for helping me with this.
Chris

2
Kerry / Re: First name Desmitt (Downy/Sullivan)
« on: Wednesday 01 November 23 07:12 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all
Of course Desmitt would be Dermot, silly not to have thought of it.  Thank you very much for this.

Re the Downy nickname for Sullivan.  Downey/Downy/Downing was the nickname of a Sullivan family originally from co Kerry.  Source:  http://www.osulivanclan.com/osullivanbranchnames.html
As far as Kilgarvan goes, I have identified Cooper, Bl(u,ue,ew,oo)man, Goulah, Cumba, McCann and Bawn as other nicknames from this parish.  Makes our research interesting to say the least.
Chris



3
Kerry / Re: Underwritten Memorial Deed
« on: Tuesday 31 October 23 00:53 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Elwyn
I live in NSW, Aust so apologise for delay in replying to your latest comment.  Have attached a copy of the Mem Deed in question.

To fill you in on my Sullivan research which will put my interest in this Mem Deed into perspective:

1769 - Richard Orpen leases land to Daniel & Desmatt Downy (aka Sullivan) at Lower Shandrum, Kilgarvan.  Note Orpen is a major land holder based at Ardtully, Kilgarvan.
1789 - John Sullivan of London leases land at Courenowkil, Kilgarvan to Orpen.
1798 - Probated Will of John Sullivan of London mentions brothers Timothy, Daniel & Denis Sullivan as well as sisters Catherine Ferris, Eleanor Atkins & Ann Sullivan.
1800 - the 1769 Deed registered to Daniel & Morto Sullivan of Coomhola, Bantry (a valley 6 kms west of Bantry in par. Kilmocomoge).  Timothy Sullivan & Martin Buckley of Ardtully & John Murphy of Kilpadder (also Kilgarvan) are underwriters for deed.
1826 - Patrick Thady Sullivan lease holder at Ardtully.  No Sullivans at Shandrum.  However there is a John & Daniel Connor (is this a Sullivan nickname??)
1830 - Jeremiah Sullivan bpt to Daniel Sullivan & Catherine Lynch at Regurane which was a subtownland of Ardtully.  Also known as Ummeireigurane.  Additional children born Adrtully  Murtagh (Morto)1833 & Mary 1836.  Jeremiah is my line of interest.

DNA evidence also confirms links to both Ardtully & Cousane, par. Kilmocomoge, Bantry.

So .. I am trying to establish if there is a definite connection between the Sullivans above, particularly Timothy (1800) to Daniel & Morto (1800), as this would possibly link them to the John Sullivan in London.   I also feel strongly that the Daniel & Morto Sullivan from Coomhola would explain the DNA link to Cousane.

Elwyn, I would also be very interested in the Land Indexes for the Sullivan at Shandrum & Ardtully.  Are they freely available in the public domain?
Many thanks for your help
Chris

4
Kerry / Re: Underwritten Memorial Deed
« on: Monday 30 October 23 08:41 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you for replying.  The lease for 6.5 gneeves at Shandrum Lower was a renewal of an earlier one dated 1769, so for 31 years.  New lessors were Daniel & Morto Sullivan, possibly related to original lessors John & Desmitt Downy (aka Sullivan).  Daniel & Morto were from Coomhola, Bantry. Appears to have been underwritten (Uwrtn on deed) by Timothy Sullivan and Martin Buckley of Ardtully and a man named Murphy from Kilpadder.  I wondered if Daniel & Morto were under 21 therefore requiring an underwriter.
Chris

5
Kerry / Underwritten Memorial Deed
« on: Monday 30 October 23 07:16 GMT (UK)  »
Hi
I have a copy of a Memorial Deed dated 1801 for Kilgarvan, co Kerry which has three underwriters, one of whom maybe related judging by the name.  Can anyone advise me as to why this was necessary? 
Many thanks
Chris

6
Kerry / First name Desmitt (Downy/Sullivan)
« on: Monday 30 October 23 07:08 GMT (UK)  »
Hi
I have a Memorial Deed dated 1800 referring to the previous lease holders of a property in Kilgarvan, co Kerry as being John and Desmitt Downy.  Downy was a Sullivan nickname but I haven’t come across the name Desmitt before.  Was this a man or woman’s name?  Thinking it may be Desmond but not sure. 
Chris

7
Kerry / Sullivan Nicknames in Kilgarvan
« on: Saturday 26 August 23 08:03 BST (UK)  »
Hi listers
Myself and another like minded soul are working on a DNA project focussing primarily on Kilgarvan, co Kerry and are using our shared DNA matches to identify possible familial pathways previously unknown to us.  I myself am primarily interested in Sullivan & Lynch.  The other researcher is interested in Donoghue & Kelliher but we have shared DNA matches featuring Healey, Shea, Hagerty, Harrington, Reardon & Casey families.  Quite a few of these families somehow have a Sullivan in the mix and we are finding that nicknames are making their way into our research.

At the moment we have identified the following Sullivan nicknames in Kilgarvan -
Blue(ew)(oo)man, Barruil (Barrell), McCann, Goula, Rodgers, Downs (Downing), Cumba & Sughrue (technically not a nickname).

Can anyone help with any other nick names which may be of interest.  I believe the Cumba nickname refers to descendants of the Irish Brigade who fought for France in the seventeenth century.  Sughrue on the other hand were not blood related to the O'Sullivans but slowly married into them.  They were viewed and treated as a servile class by the Gaelic nobility.

I would be particularly interested if anyone could throw some light on the Blue(ew)(oo)man nickname.  Family were primarily situated in Rosseighteragh.  Best suggestions so far are descendants of a heavily tattooed man or alternatively of a man who was a supervisor in an iron mine.

Many thanks
Chris

8
Kerry / Sullivan Blu(e)man of Kilgarvan
« on: Thursday 18 May 23 02:37 BST (UK)  »
Hi there
I have come across several references to the surname Sullivan/Blu(e)man in my Kilgarvan research and am wondering why one particular Sullivan branch would use this double surname.  It has been suggested by AI chat bots that Blu(e)man is an occupational surname derived from the Old German word "blei" meaning lead and that some Sullivans may have worked in lead works or were in charge of them.  From what I have established the Sullivan/Blu(e)man line was at Cregeen and later Rosseighteragh. 

Can anyone shed some light on whether there were lead mines nearby?   I have also discovered that there was a large copper mine at Ardtully between 1812 and 1830 when it closed down.  My earliest confirmed (by DNA) ancestor was at Ardtully between 1830-1836 at least and was working on the John Bresnahan lot at Ummirengerane (subtownland of Ardtully), so I am assuming that this was a farming property.

The only other thing I can think of in relation to the double name is that in order to inherit a property an early Sullivan (1830s-1850s) had to adopt the name.  Similar to what occurred with the Orpen-Townsend line.

Can anybody shed some further light on this?
Many thanks
Chris


9
Now that is a tip definitely worth knowing about.  Many thanks for this, although in hindsight it makes perfect sense doesn't it.
Chris

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