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Messages - Rw2

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Thank you again very much Cas, mckha489 and Sue!!!

I've learned so much from you in the last 36 hours.  One nice thing is that as difficult as life was in Rochdale in the 1840s, and although Edwin's parents settled there, they hail from lovely, ancient, much more peaceful towns just a little further east.  Illingsworth on the northern outskirts of Halifax, Killinghall and Ripley with its lovely church, and idyllic Fewston, a few hours walk from Bolton priory to the west and even closer to Studley park and Fountains Abbey (the Unesco site) to the north.  (I found only one Rothwell with 'Find a Grave' in all the cemeteries of greater Halifax, which indicates that Abraham Sr. might have roots elsewhere, although I know that most gravestones don't hold up well after 200 yr.s.)   

I will sign up for that heritage site later this summer, as I had done years ago. 

Thank you again!  More soon. 

Thank you again!  I have to log out, but I'll log back on later today or this evening.

I forgot to ask something, you mentioned that the 1851 census (which I can't access for some reason) indicates that Abraham Rothwell is from Yorkshire, and might have hailed from Halifax.  (You wrote "Abraham Rothwell   37   Head, Yorkshire (Halifax?)")  Is there an indication he was or might've been from Halifax?  Of course I'm curious about him now and his roots.

Thanks again very much!

Dear Cas,

Checking on 'Free Cen' (which only has census records from 1861, 1871 and 1891 [?]) I see that Edwin and Margaret's eldest was a Jane Ann, which makes sense (I think her name was mentioned in a post earlier, named for her maternal grandmother and Ann Clegg), and the 3rd child, a 2nd girl, is named Mary, so that makes sense too (Mary Eshelby/Eshilby).  Edwin's father Abraham passed when Edwin was @ 17 yr.s, and who knows what their relationship was like, but Edwin doesn't name his son Abraham, which makes sense too seeing as it seems he was adopted.   

Re the Mary Eshilby born in 1808, it's true she's a bit old, Edwin's Mary was born in @ 1812 per both her tombstone and the census, but what I see often in Scottish records is that when a child or an infant dies, the parents will often give the same name to their next born of the same sex.  Maybe the Mary born in 1808 was my great x 3 grandmother's elder sister.  She was born in Fewston, which is @ 8 - 10 km.s from Killinghall, her place of birth per the census, so ...   (Btw, it's interesting how very much my ancestors moved around in the 19th cent.)

Thanks again very much!!!  Anything else you find or come across, please let me know.  :)

Wow, this is like Christmas!  (I just woke up and checked my email.  I'm in Canada.)  Thank you Sue and Cas and mckha489!  So Ann was an Eshelby!  And it looks like Edwin's mother was an Eshelby.
 (Until now there were 3 possibilities re the connection between my great great granddad Edwin and his aunt and uncle William and Ann:  1. William was his maternal uncle, i.e. his mother was a Clegg too; 2. Ann was his maternal aunt, maiden surname u/k [Eshelby, sister of Mary Eshelby]; and 3. that Ann was his paternal aunt, maiden surname Rothwell.  This narrows it down to no. 2)

The will you've found Sue is definitely the right one for Ann, for it notes that Edwin was in Kirkby Lonsdale, which is so.  He'd moved there, the home of his wife Margaret and originally her father, to have a family.  It's a very lovely town.  Here's a fun vlog from there:  My great grandfather was born there.  Sadly Edwin's wife Margaret passed there at @ age 31.  I don't know if she died from childbirth.)   So Ann had nephews Joseph Rothwell per her will and Alfred Rothwell, born in Rochdale, per the 1871 census, both brothers. 
It looks very much like Ann was Mary's (Abraham Rothwell's wife's) sister.  What a lovely headstone!

I note that John and Lucy Rothwell were witnesses to Abraham's wedding.  I know that Edwin had a daughter named Lucy.  Was Rothwell her maiden name?  Was she the spouse or brother of John?  (I'm not suggesting there's any likelihood that Lucy could be an Eshelby too, but it's not unheard of for 2 siblings to marry 2 siblings.  It's happened in other branches of my tree.)

I'll check the census records to see whether Edwin sired an Abraham in honour of this man who was likely his father, and a Mary.  My great grandfather was a Robert William Rothwell, Robert for his father-in-law I assume, and William for his uncle.

Cas, you mention that Edwin learned the plumbing trade from his uncle William and that Abraham and Mary Rothwell might've agreed that William and Ann Clegg raise him and train him (seeing as he and Ann didn't have other children, and might've been unable to.)  The life of a plumber was very much better than that of the average local man in Lancashire in the 1840s and 50s, something Abraham and Mary likely appreciated.  Work in the cotton mills was debilitating in fact, as you'd know better than I if you live in northern England.

Ann Clegg nee Eshelby hailed from Fewston just north of Leeds.  Do the censuses indicate that Mary was from there as well?   (My access to census records is inconsistent just now.)

Thank you again and again!!

I'd assumed so re Robert, but I hadn't noticed or I'd forgotten that Edwin has a middle initial R in his census record entry for 1851.  I came across bapt. records online for more than one Edwin Rothwell b. 1845 in Rochdale (1 in St. Chad's I think) some years ago, but couldn't find them when I last looked. (?)  I'm a bit surprised.  So I thought I'd ask when I came across a thread with both Rothwells and Cleggs. 
Thanks again. 

I'm looking for free sites.  'Free Cen' (here ) is great for 1861, but doesn't seem to have '51 census records as yet. (?)

I've edited the post on that other thread.
Thanks again.

Thanks again,

I included the link in the first post above.  Before I delete that post, is there some way to direct the people who posted to that thread to this new one?

I'd forgotten that Edwin was an Edwin R. Rothwell in the 1851 census.  His son, my great grandfather, was named Robert.  (Again, the 'Free Cen' site doesn't seem to work for 1851.  Not for an Ann Clegg either.  ?  Which site are you using?)

Thanks again very much. 

Thank you, I'll delete the post to the old thread (once I learn how to link it to this post.) 

I wrote that post from memory (although I've checked the 1861 census record and changed it to mention that Edwin's aunt Ann originally hails from Fewston, just north of Leeds.  I checked the FreeCen site, and while an entry comes up for 1861, none does for 1851.  But I have a record from that census as well, for a 6 year old Edwin, that I printed out a few years ago.) 
I've looked through church records available online for the older churches in Rochdale and haven't found the bapt. record for an Edwin Rothwell that fits the census records, but which indicate he was born in Rochdale.   

Do you think it might be more likely that William is his maternal uncle, ie. that his mother was a Clegg too, in light of the middle name indicated in 1861, or would he take on that name having been adopted by a William Clegg?

Thanks again for your kind response!!

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