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Messages - JeremyS

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1
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Saturday 03 April 21 17:40 BST (UK)  »
Some info from the Issac Moss Vernon Will if you people are still interested in this story!

The Mrs Clayton was a Beatrice Clayton who lived in 17 Iverna Mansions in Kensington, & she was given the Hotel on Shaftesbury Avenue. Not really sure who she was.

His wife & sons got most of everything else, inc given the rights over the Gloucester Mansions of Cambridge Circus, but they still had to buy the freehold. The son Phillip was indeed given a bit of a cruel inheritance, he had to collect it weekly in London but was living in America or Canada at the time, it seems he came back & died in Margate area!

The Maggie Sayer of the newspapers isn't mentioned, prob why she went to court.

He leaves a little money to some nephews, a Lewis Edwards & a Benjamin Zachariah Edwards, not sure who they were but presumably one of his sister's sons.

And he leaves £150 & then £500 to "Harry Moss son of my brother Moses Moss".

Other clues are the associations he leaves money to;
- the Western Synagogue, Alfred Place, Tott Court Rd London
- the Jewish Board of Guardians, 127 Middlesex St London
- the Jewish home for Incurables
- the Home for Aged Jews in Wandsworth Common
- Charing X hospital
- a jockey & trainers home & hospital in Newmarket

I was wondering if the Jewish Board of Guardians might have had some involvement in Harry Moss' life. I had a bit of a look at the syngogue, seems it got bombed in the Blitz so not sure if they still have records...

Anyway thought you might like to know this.

2
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Friday 26 March 21 16:37 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Josephine on Friday 26 March 21 16:10 GMT (UK)
Quote from: JeremyS on Friday 26 March 21 15:49 GMT (UK)
Then what is even sadder is what family member has in his written down memories of Moses. That he took Harry to NY, that his wife died out there & that he was a drunkard.

Well we know that Ada Rosina was back in London. So perhaps this was the story poor Harry Moss was told about his mother & perhaps he went through life thinking both his parents had died when he was a child. I find it rather heartbreaking to be honest!But just speculation...

Do you know who raised Harry? We know that he was working for his paternal uncle, so it seems he was accepted by his father's family, at least.

It would be interesting to know if the family story was correct about the uncle not leaving anything to Harry in his will.

We should have the will in the next few days.

I have looked a lot at Issac Moss (Vernon), Harry's uncle - Harry wasn't with Isaac on the 1901 or 1911 census docs. I wanted to look to see if he was with his aunts Mary, Hannah or Fanny but I really struggle tracing forward in time, especially with women if they then lose their surname! But an idea for a rainy day.

3
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Friday 26 March 21 15:54 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Josephine on Friday 26 March 21 00:56 GMT (UK)
Re. the trip to New York: I'm looking at a passenger list on FamilySearch.org. There's Morris Moss, 27; Rosina Moss, 22; and Harry Moss, 1 month; all born in England. But Morris's occupation looks like Sailor.

Is this the passenger list in question?

Updated to ask: Was that ship sailing from Amsterdam?


I thought it was Tailor, if it was then everything adds up - names, ages, the family story etc. It's a shame I can't show u the travel doc, but it sounds like the one you found, yes the boat departed Amsterdam (maybe came via London?). I found it on ancestry, but I'll transcribe the important bits...

Ship: P Caland
Arrives New York 20/04/1889
Morris Moss 27
Rosina Moss 22
Harry Moss 1 month (I think it says that, that's how it's transcribed anyway)
2 pieces of luggage
Destination U.S of America

The family story is that they weren't allowed to stay or were turned back but who knows. It's the only doc I can find of this trip
Travelled in the Family Compartment




4
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Friday 26 March 21 15:49 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Josephine on Friday 26 March 21 00:24 GMT (UK)
This doesn't answer your question, but it might be of interest.

The Daily News (London, England), Wed., Aug. 29, 1888, has a list of bankruptcy cases to "surrender in London," which includes "Moss, Morris, Prued-street, Paddington, clothier."

The Standard (London, England), same date, has: "Moss, Morris, Praed-street, Paddington, clothier, August 24."

I can't find anything else.

Edited to add:

The Morning Post (London, England), Wed., Sept. 19, 1888, has: "BANKRUPTS. NOTICES OF ADJUDICATIONS AND FIRST MEETINGS OF CREDITORS... M. Moss, Praed-street, Paddington, clothier and outfitter, September 26 [I think it's 26, but it could be 28], at 12."

What a find. Maybe this is why he goes to New York then...it seems he really fell on bad times.

There is a bit of a story emerging here. Son of a Jewish clothier who has clearly done quite well for himself marries a daughter of another successful Jewish clothier, & then tragedy strikes with the loss of her & his son. Then he appears bankrupt one year later, gas what appears to be a bit of a shotgun wedding with a Gentile daughter of a traveller, runs off to New York.

Then what is even sadder is what family member has in his written down memories of Moses. That he took Harry to NY, that his wife died out there & that he was a drunkard.

Well we know that Ada Rosina was back in London. So perhaps this was the story poor Harry Moss was told about his mother & perhaps he went through life thinking both his parents had died when he was a child. I find it rather heartbreaking to be honest!But just speculation...

5
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Friday 26 March 21 15:44 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: sandiep on Thursday 25 March 21 20:03 GMT (UK)
I had  look through Doreen Bergers books in which she has transcribed a lot of Jewish reports from the Jewish Chronical found this

Rachel Moses death at 10th July 1874 @ 25 Cutler Street Houndsditch  beloved wife of Zachariah Moses and Mrs Barnet Daughter and Mrs Judah Daughter.

also in Great Synagogue births
Isaac Butler Street Houndsditch  14th Oct 1864
Joseph  7 Market Street Finsbury  24th July 1851
Benjamin 6 Devonshire Street Bishopsgate 31st March 1857

MOSES, MOSES       JUDAH 
GRO Reference: 1858  D Quarter in EAST LONDON  Volume 01C  Page 13
all were children of Zachariah & Rachel Moses.

This is fantastic, thanks so much. Is this resource readily accessible?

6
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Thursday 25 March 21 16:22 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Josephine on Thursday 25 March 21 16:20 GMT (UK)
This is great!

JeremyS, I'm still confused about Harry's final resting place. I understand that the cemetery didn't have anything on file for him, but is there a stone on his grave?

Regards,
Josephine

No stone I'm afraid, a rather sad looking grave! And no other info held there, so a dead-end :(

7
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Thursday 25 March 21 15:46 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Bookbox on Thursday 25 March 21 15:26 GMT (UK)
Thanks for keeping us updated. I’m sorry if I’ve missed some of your research stages in what is now a very long thread.

Have you managed to resolve satisfactorily this very important issue below that you yourself raised in reply #48?

Quote from: JeremyS on Thursday 18 March 21 21:01 GMT (UK)
The big question is whether the Harry Moss married in 1913, 24, a barman, is the same as in this 1911 census.

That's ok I've struggled to keep up with it myself at times!

Of course there can't be definitive proof but the names, DOB, place of birth, the family story, & now Harry's (or Henry's!) birth certificate, father, occupations all match up. I am satisfied.

Squiddley has even located Moses & his father Zachariah's headstones in Edmonton Jewish cem which is very satisfying.

Just these 2 questions really remain on Harry Moss. And we still don't know who all his children were but this should be resolved by the 1921 Census release.

I now need to learn how to trace people going back to before the early 1800s, because without the Census results & the parental/job details on the wedding certificates it seems very hard!

8
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Thursday 25 March 21 11:56 GMT (UK)  »
So after much consultation with Squiddley1957 from the Family Tree Forum, who has done a lot of work, & consultations with newly found family members, we have settled on;
- Harry Moss was born Henry (!!) Morris Moss 6/3/1889 at Queen Charlotte's Hospital to Morris Moss & Ada Rosina Moss b. Tardbard. He was then baptised (!!) 14/3/1889 in St John's Wood. He is the same person who we saw in the 1911 working at the Avenue Hotel in Shaftesbury Av & who marries Rose Phillips in 1913.
- His Morris Moss was indeed born Moses Moss in St Botolph way, (yes son of Zachariah Moses, & the family then moved to Praed St Paddington), but Moses used the names Maurice & Morris in his life. He married a Fanny Moses (b.1862) in 1886, in a Jewish ceremony, but shortly after this both Fanny & their newborn son Benjamin died. This appears to have sent Moses/Morris/Maurice into the arms of Ada Rosina Tarbard, who he married in July 1888 in Hastings. She was almost certainly not Jewish, & neither was their ceremony, & she was prob pregnant with Harry at the time.
- Moses then goes to New York in April 1889 with Ada Rosina & Harry.
- Moses then dies in Whitechapel in 1904, & Ada Rosina goes on to have a new life with a Richard Vowles around Canning Town, & has other children with him.

The questions that remain;
- I can find no records of Morris/Moses, Ada Rosina & Harry in New York apart form their arrival, & nor can I find their return to London, which apparently was after a couple of years.
- Harry & family are not on the 1891 Census (prob in NY), but where is he in 1901?

But I thought I'd send that info to you all :)

9
The Common Room / Re: 20th Century Jewish brick wall
« on: Friday 19 March 21 21:45 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Bookbox on Friday 19 March 21 20:20 GMT (UK)
Quote from: JeremyS on Friday 19 March 21 18:19 GMT (UK)
Then they say Rachael dies 1874 and Zachariah remarries to Elizabeth Leah Connor Mar 1888 Paddington - I can't find docs to support either of these facts.

There are possible index entries, but you won't find the records themselves online.

Deaths Jun 1874
MOSES    Rachel    46    London C.   1c   6

Marriages Mar 1888
Connor    Elizabeth        Paddington  1a   86      
Highlands    Rebecca        Paddington  1a   86      
JENNINGS    Alfred John    Paddington  1a   86      
MOSES    Elizabeth        Paddington  1a   86      
MOSES    Zachariah        Paddington  1a   86   

The above marriage was probably in a register office. Elizabeth may already have been known as Elizabeth Moses, as she is indexed under both surnames.

You'll need the civil certificate for more details, and to compare the name of Zachariah's father with that on the 1848 marriage record.

Yes as ELizabeth & Zachariah had already had several children together that would make sense. And thanks for the incredible knowledge about Finsbury & St Luke's, fascinating!

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