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Messages - Shadwell

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Australia / Death and Burial of Miguel (John) Garcia
« on: Tuesday 15 January 08 07:28 GMT (UK)  »
Miguel Paschal Garcia has eluded our family for years.  See

He was born in London about 1835, married in Dunedin 1868, lived in Richmond, Melbourne in the 1870/80s and may have moved back to NZ in about 1888, or died earlier in Melbourne, Victoria or elsewhere, or perhaps left NZ in the 1880/90s to parts unknown, including possibly Melbourne. 

He appears to have been also known as Michael Garcia or John Garcia.  He was variously a clerk, draughtsman, and bookkeeper and his movements to Dunedin, Victoria, and Thames NZ indicate a connection with gold, but perhaps only in providing ancillary services.

He was aged 46 in 1881 when his mother died in Richmond.

Any help would be appreciated.  This is a last-ditch effort before a Garcia family reunion in New Zealand this week end.

Kind regards


New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Death and Burial Place Miguel (John) Garcia
« on: Tuesday 15 January 08 07:11 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Althea

Thanks for the electoral roll reference :).

Yes I have trolled through Papers Past.  There's some very interesting information there, including a couple of references to our Miguel Garcia.

If there are no New Zealand records of Miguel's death or burial, perhaps he did die overseas.  I think I'll try a post on the Emigrants to Australia thread.



New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Death and Burial Place Miguel (John) Garcia
« on: Monday 14 January 08 18:02 GMT (UK)  »
Hi ev

A very good thought as some of the information I have is unclear and confusing.  I've tried to explain this below.  It is a possibility that Miguel Garcia died other than in New Zealand, and perhaps in Melbourne. I do not have shipping records of his travel to New Zealand.

On the Richmond, Victoria, council rates ledgers a Michael Garcia lived at Charlotte St, Richmond, Victoria in 1876. Directories show John M. Garcia lived in Charlotte St, Richmond in 1876 and 1877.  I assume Miguel, Michael, and John Garcia are the same person.  Curiously he disappears from Council and Directory listing until 1886, when J.M. Garcia appears as living in Brougham St, Richmond. Victoria.

In the interim, the local council’s voters’ roll records show a Mrs Garcia, a widow, at Brougham St. from 1882/83 until 1887/88 .  The term widow could refer to Elizabeth Garcia, mother of Miguel, or perhaps to Mary Garcia (Miguel's wife) who is recorded in directories as living in 1880 and 1882 and 1887 in Brougham St, Richmond.

Miguel was recorded as aged 46 in 1881 on the death certificate of his mother Elizabeth in 1881 (she died at Brougham St), so I think he was alive then.  Subsequent Richmond directory records in 1886 and 1887 to J M Garcia and the Thames High School register reference in 1889 make me think Miguel was still alive in 1889 and living in New Zealand.  Of course he may have subsequently left New Zealand and died overseas.   

I'd be interested in any other suggestions or thoughts.  It is very helpful to have someone else questioning assumptions and making suggestions.  Appreciate your help ev. :)


New Zealand Completed Requests / Death and Burial Place Miguel (John) Garcia
« on: Monday 14 January 08 09:53 GMT (UK)  »
Many relatives have been looking through various records over the years for the death and burial place of my great-grandfather, Miguel Paschal Garcia - most likely around Thames between 1889 and 1908.  He was born in London about 1835, married in Dunedin 1868, lived in Melbourne in the 1870/80s and moved back to NZ in about 1888.  He appears to have been also known as Michael Garcia or John Garcia. 

His wife Mary Jane Garcia died in 1908 and is buried at Shortland Cemetery, Thames, but no sign of Miguel.  John Garcia (aka Miguel Garcia?), Totara Point, Thames, is listed in 1889 as a guardian of James Garcia (my grandfather) in the Thames High School Register of Pupils.

Any help or suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.

Australia / Re: James Garcia birth Richmond VIC 1876-78
« on: Thursday 22 November 07 07:18 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Genni

I (and my many relatives) look forward to the outcome.  Good luck :)

Kind regards


Australia / Re: James Garcia birth Richmond VIC 1876-78
« on: Wednesday 21 November 07 10:02 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Sue

The informant for Mary Jane Garcia's certified copy of entry of death is not shown, but they did not know where she was married, nor at what age married, nor the first name of to whom married, - so I would say the informant was not very reliable or not very informed.  I doubt it was her son James as she died when he was a few hundred miles away.

I'm not sure who the relative was who told me 13 January 1878.  I've been looking into this part-time and spasmodically for thirty years and in the early days did not know the importance of keeping files and references.

I agree there could have been valid reasons such as the ones you suggest for returning the child Jane to the orphanage, but it all sounds a bit sad :'(.  Mary Jane's mother-in-law died the year Jane was returned to the orphanage and her husband seems to have died or diappeared about that time, so perhaps circumstances became too difficult.

As to whether the children are connected?  James must have been close to the adopted Stanley as he named one of his sons Stanley, but he referred to Stanley as adopted but not himself.  You may well be right, but we have no evidence as yet. 

Thank you Sue for helping me narrow down the search.  Genni found Stanley :D, now surely we could find James and end a longstanding puzzle.  Just relaised Genni has been searching at SLV, which I understand is State Library of Victoria, so perhaps there is more there.

Cheers and thanks for your ongoing help :).


Australia / Re: Lookup for St Kilda Cemetery Memorial Inscription
« on: Wednesday 21 November 07 08:52 GMT (UK)  »
I left the cool climate of New Zealand and in last weekend's Melbourne heat  found my ancestor's 1881 grave at St Kilda Cemetery, but no inscription for her - Elizabeth Garcia (mispelt in cemetery records as Gracie).  Two other people, by the name of Edwards, were buried in the site about 50 years after her.  The grave has the inscription "Edwards" with the site number 388 etched in it.  It is in section C Wesleyan.

My eldest daughter, who lives In Melbourne now, Elizabeth's great-great-great granddaughter was first to find the grave.  No doubt we were the first visitors in 125 years. 

Thanks to all who helped and the nice person from Springvale Botanical Cemetery.


Australia / Re: James Garcia birth Richmond VIC 1876-78
« on: Wednesday 21 November 07 08:27 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Genni, Sue and Cando

I appreciate you sticking with me on this one.  I have a number of relatives in New Zealand and one in London now following this quest and I'm just hoping to crack through this brickwall before the family reunion in January.

There is no James in prior family history - parents Miguel and Mary Jane had fathers Miguel and Francis (Francois) - so what Cando says makes sense to me.  So I'm looking for a James born 1875 to 1878 in Melbourne (probably Richmond, close to Charlotte St or perhaps family known through the Methodist Church) to an unmarried mother, father unknown.   

I have revisited what I know about James "Garcia's" date of birth and it appears he could have been born between 1875 and 1878.  Cyclopaedia of New Zealand would make it 1877 in Richmond, Victoria, marriage details indicate 1877/78 in Richmond, Victoria, and James’s death certificate indicates born between 18 July 1876 and 17 July 1877, but his mother Mary Jane Garcia’s death certificate in 1908 indicates it could be 1875 or even 1882 - two male issue aged 33 years (1875) and 26 (1882).  Place of birth on James’s death certificate is stated as Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.  Taranaki Daily News of 19 July 1943 stated that he was born at Melbourne. A relative once told me that James’s birthday was 13 January 1878.  In Thames High School's (NZ) register of pupils, James was born on 13 January 1876.

I also can't help wondering why Mary Jane Garcia would return a young girl to the orphanage yet keep my grandfather who was around the same age.

I know this all sounds very confusing, but any further help would be gratefully appreciated.

Cando, thanks for the "James" names. Genni, thanks for the library research - which library was that and I wonder if there is a James for my dates in the Boys book?

Kind regards


Australia / Re: James Garcia birth Richmond VIC 1876-78
« on: Tuesday 20 November 07 14:05 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Genni

Thank you very much for taking time out to research my family.  I'm amazed at what you've been able to find.  I've just come back from a very short trip to Melbourne during which we visited a gravesite and houses in Richmond lived in by the Garcia family.

Your news about a foster 'daughter' was fascinating.  I wonder why one would send a child back to the orphanage after fostering for five years?  That doesn't sound like my modern-day family at all, but I guess we do not know what the circumstances were at the time.

The adoption of a brother (Stanley) and a foster child (Jane Frances) is building a picture of a family that did adopt and makes it even more important we find out the birth details of my grandfather James Garcia before our family reunion in January 2008.  I wonder if Vic BDM would give me all births for 13 January 1876 or whether someone would kindly lookup Melbourne and/or Richmond births on that date looking for a James or a male born close to Charlotte St, Richmond?

Many thanks once again and kind regards.


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