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Messages - majm

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1
Re Ada C GALLAGHER ... Was she born 1861 or 1864?

NSW BDM has birth for Ada C, parents as John A and Elizabeth, birth registered Tamworth. Ref 13208/1861,

Here's some info from NSW electoral roll for LIVERPOOL PLAINS 1870 ... that's the electorate that included Tamworth.

John Ambrose GALLAGHER, of Tamworth, qualified to enrol as a voter as per his residence in Tamworth.  Perhaps he was Ada C Gallagher's Dad.

NSW ER 1878 LIVERPOOL PLAINS
John Ambrose GALLAGHER, residence, Tamworth.

Greville Post Office Directory, 1875 TAMWORTH
J.A. Gallagher, "Tamworth Examiner'.   :)

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223535520  NSW Govt Gazette ... John Ambrose Gallagher, of Tamworth ... newspaper proprietor.

JM

2
Hi,

From an online tree, so the usual precautions apply  ;D

Ada Clara GALLAGHER birth 1864, Tamworth, NSW died 1956 Fremantle WA.
Married 28th July 1885, Maclean NSW, to William Stewart STEELE 1843-1939.

William Stewart STEELE born 2 Dec 1843, North Frobost, South Uist, Scotland
married 28 July 1885, Maclean NSW to Ada Clara GALLAGHER 1864-1956

A son born 11 April 1895, Yamba, NSW.  Son died aged 77 in 1972 at Perth Western Australia.

No other children of the 1885 marriage are listed on that online tree.

No information on any previous marriage for William Stewart STEELE.

 
JM



3
Australia / Re: Leslie William Bryce born 26 Jul 1899 Balmain, New South Wales
« on: Thursday 13 May 21 14:22 BST (UK)  »
Yes I realised that the DP laws in Australia are stricter than in the UK but is it possible to find a death for Leslie?
Cr

Some questions re Leslie

 :) Where have you already looked for his death ?
 :) Can you list his parents names please?
 :) Can you list his siblings names please (including any of his sisters married surnames) - afterall if your DNA match leads you to him, it also leads you to all his siblings
 :) What year is your last positive sighting for Leslie in Australia?
 :) what state or territory was that sighting?
 :) what info about Leslie had your DNA match already given you to show how Leslie is related to them? ....
 :) does the DNA match know when/Where for his death,? 

JM

4
Australia / Re: Leslie William Bryce born 26 Jul 1899 Balmain, New South Wales
« on: Thursday 13 May 21 13:41 BST (UK)  »
Leslie and Jean had other siblings born in NSW, as per the online index for NSW bdm. 



JM

5
Australia / Re: Leslie William Bryce born 26 Jul 1899 Balmain, New South Wales
« on: Thursday 13 May 21 13:29 BST (UK)  »
The above married Daphne Adell Hollingshed Gahan ( born 1914) 1944 in Sydney, she died 13 Jul 2000 in Sydney but I can't find a death record for Leslie or his sister Jean Stein Bryce born 18 Jun 1900?
I have a DNA match to a relation of Leslie but I don't know if he had any children with Daphne?
Cr

So if the 1944 marriage produced children, chances are they are still alive.  If residing in Australia, their personal privacy is protected, including their names, ages, address etc.   


JM.

6
Yes,  that's a m.c. that has not been reconciled.

The clergyman's register should be extant.  I will make some phone calls.  Could be a week or so before I know where the register is currently held.    Notice it is all in the same handwriting - the clergyman's hand.   Notice there's no details in Birthplace, Age, Father's name, mother's name and maiden surname, Father's occupation and NO margin notes to the right of the witness signatures.     

I can add a point of interest ... there is also NO mention of the bride needing to have someone give permission for her to marry.... so it is fair to conclude that the bride was at least 21 years of age.  Consent for a minor was usually recorded in the white space to the right of the 'Married in the  ..... According to ........  ;)     If she was not yet 21 years of age, the NSW Marriage Act would have required the clergyman to follow up with the NSW Guardian of Minors .... via the local Clerk of Petty Sessions and/or the deputy registrar for bdm (often in rural localities the CPS was the deputy registrar). 

ADD  those 1876/1878 details could be family members for the bride.  Brides in that era in rural NSW were often returning 'home' to be married from Mum and Dad's home.   :)


JM

7
Grevilles Post Office Directory 1875 ROCKYMOUTH

James GALLAGHER, carpenter, South Arm  (South Arm is the 'address').   None under STEELE at that Rockymouth listing. 


1878 NSW Electoral Roll, THE CLARENCE. 
with the surname GALLAGHER and in the Grafton Police district:
christian name, locality, qualification to vote, remarks
Charles, Ulmarra,  residence, -
Thomas, Tyndale, freehold, Tyndale
Peter, Woodford island, residence, -
James, Tyndale, freehold, Tyndale
Charles, Chatsworth, residence, Chatworth island
Thomas, South Grafton, residence -

1878 NSW Electoral Roll, THE CLARENCE. 
with the surname GALLAGHER and in the Lismore Police district:
christian name, locality, qualification to vote, remarks
Owen, Gundurimba, freehold, -
Patrick, Lismore, residence

........

JM
 

8
Update!

I have just received a copy of the MC of...

William Steel (Widower)! Quarryman, Yamba &
Ada Gallagher (Spinster), Domestic Servant, Grafton,
28 Jul 1885 at the Manse, Rocky Mouth, NSW.

There are no parents names recorded/updated...

Witnesses are Thomas Lynch & Jane McNabb.

If anyone can find any info. on a possible previous marriage or anything else I'd be very grateful.


Annie

Hi Annie,

Rural NSW marriages in that era often still have NOT been reconciled by NSW BDM with the actual church record.  There was a very lengthy dispute between ... decades long dispute, not resolved until mid 1890s.  So the NSW civil Registrar General for BDMs was receiving ONLY SUMMARY info from the clergy.    I did up a thread on how to overcome those blanks on m.c. in that era.  It is now a very long thread, and it is on the NSW Resources board.   

Can you type up the clergy and denomination please.   I gather as the ceremony was at 'The Manse' that it is NOT a Roman Catholic marriage.

Once i know the clergy's name and the denomination I will try to help further, and of course there's likely to be the actual original parish register held at either the denomination's local archives, or at their state head quarters, or even at family history group's offices, or at independent state based Archives.

Here's the link to that now long thread.     
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

I know you know that sometimes there's social announcements in the local newspapers.  Many local newspapers are digitised and freely available at trove :  https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/advanced/category/newspapers

So the elusive blanks on the m.c. include details about the origins of both the bride and the groom and their parentages.... in other words, the very vital info that the family history buffs need was the same vital info that the clergy declined to provide to the civil registration process for the era 1856-1895 in NSW. 

 In 1912 NSW BDM commenced a reconciliation process to obtain that info.  They concentrated on the metropolitan Sydney records (close at hand to Reg Gen's office, and far more events in the metro area than in rural NSW).   Then WWI came along, and many in the clerical staff  were medically unfit to serve in the AIF front lines in Europe, but their skills were needed locally for the War Effort.  So they became clerical bods in the AIF's Base Records in Sydney.    After the Armistice, those same bods were at the end of the queue for getting their jobs back at Reg. General's BDM office.   

The issues were a) Australia had to repay its huge war debt to Britain, and b) those who had served on the front lines were at the front of the queue for getting their NSW BDM jobs back.     So, the funding for re-commencing the reconciliation of church and state bdm marriage records was abandoned, and basically has not ever adequately recommenced.   

So here it is 2021,  and people like me, born in NSW in the post WWII era, (1947) who learnt to write with ink and quill and then with fountain pen etc.... we can still read the handwriting.  But in the 1960s, NSW state education department changed the style of handwriting taught.  So people born from say 1950 were re-taught handwriting and bascially there's very few people left who can read those historic NSW BDM certificates.   :'(  :'(   Sorry for ranting.

JM

9
Australia / Re: Norfolk Island Births and immigration
« on: Wednesday 12 May 21 09:03 BST (UK)  »
Sadly ....
Parents names were not required to be on NSW Chaplains' parish registers in that era. Sorry.

I am still waiting on thoughts from my ancient rellies ...
In Reply #19 mention is made of Jane Milward aged 1 year 10 months 22 June 1829 at Sydney Burial Ground, registered St Philips by Rev William Cowper. Can you give me her parents names please

George Milward may well have been born 1830 TAS if the regiment was there at this time.. there is a big time gap between his birth supposedly 1830 and his baptism in Sydney. Can't find anything on Tas archives to support this though. I have the TAS Pioneers Index 1803-1899 and no relevant Mil(l)ward listed either
shume  australia

Agree totally - I have also tried under Mil(l)wood and similar variations.    I can find a transcription of the baptism -  I share :
1 Feb 1831 baptism registered by Rev William Cowper in St Philips C of E register, Sydney.

George Alexander born 12 April 1830, son of Sergeant George Milward of 39th Regiment and his wife Jane.

And Neale found
Attached to the application to admission to the Orphans School is this

Copy of Registry of Baptism for George Milward
Date of Birth 19 April 1830
Place & date of baptism Dec 1830 Sydney
Parents Names: George & Jane Milward
Name of clergyman by whom the ceremony was performed: Rev Wm Cowper

Then regarding the other boy James Milward.
"I certify that James Milward was baptised in April 1825 at Buttevant in the County of Cork, Ireland."
Signed by George S Milward
Serjt 39th Reg
Paramatta 18 April 1832


So I wondered where else were the 39th  - so baby may have been born at sea or at HQ or Jane may have delivered in England and then come later after her confinement.... or any number of variations....  Here's a link that may be useful...

https://members.pcug.org.au/~pdownes/keenan/keenan_reg_history.htm#:~:text=During%20the%20period%20the%20regiment,miles%20from%20the%20head%2Dquarters.

“In consequence of the breaking-up of the reserve or dépôt companies of the regiment in the beginning of 1828, the officers and men composing those companies proceeded by detachments to the head-quarters in New South Wales, leaving a dépôt company in England, on the 24th August 1830, of two captains, two lieutenants, one ensign, five serjeants, six corporals, four drummers, and thirteen privates.  The first detachment embarked for New South Wales on the 1st of February 1828, and the last sailed on the 30th of August 1830.
During the period the regiment was employed in New South Wales, detachments were stationed at Van Diemen's Land, at King George's Sound, and on the northern coast, which were distant six hundred, fifteen hundred, and two thousand miles from the head-quarters.


JM



JM  on e reader,  sorry for these multiple quotes.

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