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Messages - DaveC

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1
Norfolk / Re: Thurston
« on: Tuesday 14 December 21 16:45 GMT (UK)  »
Is anyone still researching this Cecil family?
I believe that Wiliam Cecil, tailor, married Jane Hayman in 1814 Bedminster, Bristol.
They had John Francis Cecil bapt 1816 Brighton, non con, where his mother is "late Hayman"
Louisa Ann Cecil bapt 1820 Frampton Cotterell
William Hayman Cecil bapt 1820 Frampton Cotterell
Then the rest of the children bapt Brighton.
William was probably born in Herefordshire
The 1830 will of John Cecil of Much Dewchurch names son "William Cecil of Brighton"

Dave

2
Denbighshire / Re: Brookhouse, Denbigh
« on: Wednesday 14 September 16 11:33 BST (UK)  »
Has there been any further progress on this?
I am also searching for a Brookhouse resident, William Jones b.1842.
Genuki correctly states that Llanrhaiadr Parish came under Ruthin but then goes on to say that the parish was reduced a lot in the 19th century - so it may have changed.
There is some confusion in the GRO transcripts for the records I was looking at, 4/5 Williams in that quarter, so I phoned the Ruthin Register Office to find out whether it would be possible to go there and check.
The lady was very helpful, asked who I was looking for, found the records, confirmed that one was for William son of John & Ann from Brookhouse and let me order it over the phone.

That was a service that I didn't know about.

Dave

3
Gloucestershire Lookup Requests / Red Maids School, Bristol
« on: Sunday 02 August 15 13:59 BST (UK)  »
Would it be possible for someone to check the records for the Red Maids School, which I believe are in the Bristol Record Office?
I am looking for Mary Brunt who is listed there in the 1851 census, age 14.

Thanks,
Dave Campbell

4
Gloucestershire Lookup Requests / Marriage lookup Bristol St James
« on: Sunday 02 August 15 13:55 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
Could someone please check the marriage 23 May 1858 of John Saysell and Mary Brunt. I have the entry from FamilySearch but it doesn't mentioned residences or witnesses.

Dave Campbell

5
Worcestershire / Re: cecil family
« on: Sunday 20 October 13 14:51 BST (UK)  »
The date, of the book, in the previous posts should read 1885 not 1985!

Dave

6
Worcestershire / Re: cecil family
« on: Friday 18 October 13 22:12 BST (UK)  »
Unfortunately we know no more about this Stephen, except that he was either a bachelor or widower, as no wife is named, and had no children above sixteen, or none at home. One of Lord Burghley's traducers asserted that his grandfather was an innkeeper at Stamford, which at least is incorrect. If this Stephen was a young man in 1379, which is not likely, and a bachelor, then he might have been the Stephen Cecill of Howden who with Alice his wife in 1390-1 sold or
conveyed to certain trustees two houses in the town, which were apparently hers (see former note). The Poll Tax Returns, which are very full, give us one other Cecil, and only one, viz., Robert Cecil, of Howden, 1379, a brewer, and rated at iis. There was only one brewer, but no less than twenty braciatrices, or ale-wives, brewing for the thirsty husbandmen, craftsmen, and labourers, and for the many prebendaries. Robert may have been brother, or son, or even father of Stephen, but he had no wife in 1379. He, however, must have been a young man if he was the Robert Cecil who, with Isabel his wife, by fine dated 1404-5, settled two messuages and eleven acres of land in Thorpe on their issue, and in default on her heirs, showing that this property came through her. Four years after he bought a house and lands in Thorpe and Belby, just outside the town. A house and land in Belby belonged to the second wife of David Cecill, Lord Burghley’s grandfather, as I showed in my former note. There are now only two farmhouses in Belby. The Court Rolls of Howden would reveal much if they go so far back. The last of this family at Howden appears to have been George Cecill, gent., an inquest after whose death was taken at Wetherby, Sept. 16, 1539 (Inq. p.m. 31 H. VIII., No. 52). The date of his decease is, most unusually, omitted. He was found to have died seised of 6 messuages, 4 cottages, 100 acres of land, 60 acres of meadow and pasture, a windmill, and an annual rent of 13s. 4d. in
Howden, Skelton, Laxton, Knedlington, and Asleby, by which deed, he had settled on Juliana, his daughter, and William Grave, her husband. She was his sole heiress, and then aged twenty-eight.
  I have found nothing more. The name of Cecil Cecil is interesting as confirming the suggested
origin of the surname as a matronymic, not more than a generation or two before the earliest,
i.e., Stephen of 1313. It is remarkable that it should be so uncommon a name, as Cecil or Cecilia was a favourite Christian name in Yorkshire. I have only met with one instance of the name in more recent times in Yorkshire. William Nicholson, of Cawood (afterwards of York, and one of the chamberlains of the city in 1743), married in York Minster, Aug. 1, 1738, Mary Cecil, of Cawood (Yorks. Archeol. Journal, vol. iii. p. 86).
  I notice that, according to a pedigree in Miscellanea Gen. et Her., new series, iii. 286, David Cecill was younger son of a Philip Cecill of Stamford. A. S. ELLIS.

Notes:
  Peck's Desiderata Curiosa, vol. i. ch. xxi., 10.
  The bishops of Durham had a " manor," 'i.e., manor house in Riccall parish called Le Welhalle. It was built by Bishop Kellawe, who was often there, and is now a farmhouse called "Wheel" Hall. It was on the banks the Ouse, and had, it is said, three moats. Foundations of considerable extent can be traced.
  Howden, i.e., Hoveden, obtained its name when it was an insular site in the marsh or fen, and the head or chief of a group of similar sandhills. Near Christiana, in Norway, are some islands, the largest of which bears the name of Hoved-oen. On it certain monks from Lincoln founded a Cistercian monastery in 1147. " Hedon," which occurs more than once in my former note, is an
error of the MS. quoted for Howden, and evidently does not mean Hedon in Holderness

END

7
Worcestershire / Re: cecil family
« on: Friday 18 October 13 22:11 BST (UK)  »
I've been putting together the references to the early Yorkshire Cecils and came across this entry from a book “Notes and Queries” (6th Series vol 11 1985 384)
I will have to split it up.
I had also seen a short biography of Lord Burghley suggesting that his pedigree going back to Wales was more a work of fiction!

Dave

  Since my former note was written I have met with new and interesting particulars about the Cecills of Howdenshire which may be worth recording in the pages of " N. & Q." These have been found and noted without any special research on my part, while, instigated at the time by finding these to pursue the subject, my investigations have resulted in nothing - a common experience. My kind friend Dr. Sykes looked for any early wills in York, and by Mr. Hudson's permission I carefully went through the act books of the peculiar of Howden, for wills do not exist before the Restoration. Nothing was found.
  The following, I submit, confirm my suggestion that the noble house of Cecil was of this Yorkshire stock, as good a one as the very obscure Welsh family on which they were unskilfully grafted. It is remarkable that so shrewd a man as Lord Burghley should have been imposed upon by
the heralds, seeing that "he tooke great paines and delight in pedegrees, wherein he had great knowledge, and wrote whole books of them with his own hand."* These, however, I suspect, were rather tables, that he might - for political purposes see - at a glance the relationship which existed between the royal families of Europe in his day and the kinship of the great and influential families in England.

  Stephen Cecile, of Howden, 1313. - In the reign of Edward II. and pontificate of Richard de Kellawe, Bishop of Durham, Stephen Cecile was receiver of the bishop's manor or lordship of Howden, a post of great trust and emolument. How long he held this office is uncertain, but he had given place to Hugh de Lokington in 1313. Further, by letters patent dated Rykale, Wednesday after the Purification B.V.M., 1313 (i.e., 1314), the bishop made known the defeasance of the bond for 200l. sterling given by five obligors for Stephen Cecile, formerly "our" receiver of Howden, unless he renders his official account before Ash Wednesday, which that year would fall on February 20 (Regist. Palatinum Dunelmense, vol. i. p.503).
Before that day arrived, viz., on February 9, we find the bishop, still at Richale, issuing a commission to Adam de Midleton and four other trusty persons to audit the accounts of Stephen Cecile, late "our" receiver of Howden, receive arrears, and power to give him letters of acquittance (ib., 505).
We learn nothing more of the matter; but thirty years after we find a Stephen Cecill and Stephen
his son at York on June 17, 1343, with other Howdenshire folk, witnessing the charter of Richard
(de Bury), Bishop of Durham, granting lands for certain lives to one Thomas Benet, paying into
the bishop's exchequer of Howden 4s. 2d. per annum (ib., iii. 363). Whether we have two or three generations of Stephens here there is nothing to indicate.
  Stephen Cecil, of Howden, 1379. We come to another Stephen, who is probably the son who witnessed the above deed of 1343. He occurs in the Poll Tax Returns for Howden and
Howdenshire of 2 Ric. II. This fragment is about to be printed by the Yorkshire Archaeological Association in their Journal, and is in some respects more interesting even than the Returns of the West Riding, which have already appeared.
  Stephen Cecil is described as a " Fraunkel(eyn) and Hosteller" of Houeden, and rated at xld.
There were only two others (both Franklins) in that town of prebendaries rated so highly, and none higher. He paid the same as a landless esquire at arms (Rolls of Parl., iii. 57), and no doubt was much better off. He would be a considerable landholder in socage and kept the chief hostel in Howden. Only one other hosteller is named in the roll, and he is rated at xiid. Stephen Cecil had a servant named William, who paid iiiid., a groat; also another, apparently a cousin, sister, or even daughter, named Cecil Cecil. Chaucer's "Frankeleyn" no doubt would have described him well, " Seynt Julian he was in his countre.”



8
Cheshire / Re: Connecting up the Rustage variants
« on: Thursday 21 June 12 14:06 BST (UK)  »
My great grandmother was married, in Manchester 1873, as Mary Rustadge.
The census data gives her place of birth as West Derby and I have associated her with the Mary Roughsedge bapt.12 Mar 1854 and traced her family back through Tarbock and Widnes to Farnworth.
She appears as nee Rustidgue on her son's birth cert.
Her father, Ralph, appears as Roughsedge, Roustedge, Rustigue, and Rustage in the censuses.

I revisiting the name after a long gap.

Dave Campbell

9
Worcestershire / Re: cecil family
« on: Tuesday 20 March 12 10:17 GMT (UK)  »
I hadn't found any of that early data, and was being guided by this information from a history of the Burleigh Cecils:
"Towards the end of the 15th cent., however,RICHARD CECIL, the first to use the modern form of the name, m. into the Brecknock family of Vaughan of Tyle-glas.
His younger son DAVID CECIL (d.1541) migrated, with some of his Brecknock ‘cousins,’ to Lincolnshire .."

I was guessing that the Yorkshire Cecils might have migrated northwards from Lincolnshire.
The expression "Brecknock cousins" implying that they were his extended family, or even his gang, and might have taken his name while not being blood relations.

Have you considered DNA?
FamilyTreeDNA have a Cecil project

Dave

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