Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - DRH123

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 ... 94
19
Gloucestershire / Re: Wall & Browne, Stay Makers, Taylors and Habit Makers
« on: Tuesday 08 August 23 13:15 BST (UK)  »
Two of the deeeds involving "John Wall, tea-dealer" are dated 1820 and 1821, so it looks unlikely that he died in 1817.

https://archives.bristol.gov.uk/search/all:records/0_50/all/score_desc/%22John%20Wall%22%20tea

Unless that's the son J B Wall. He would have finished his apprenticeship in about 1817. He called himself an accountant when he became a burgess in 1818 and an auctioneer later on, but perhaps he tried to continue his father's tea business for a few years.

The earliest is dated 1786, so he was in Bristol by then.
I would guess that tea dealing was always his main occupation

If you search the Bristol Archives for "John Wall" - without the "tea" - and ignore the socialist poet, there are more deeds. Some are fairly certainly for a different person. One in 1782 might be him. Two in 1823 with "John Wall, gentleman" involve the same properties as some with the tea-dealer. The change to "gentleman" suggests retirement and that this is not the son. ... although his partner changes from "Thomas Pope, carpenter" to "Thomas Pope, architect" to "John Pope, gentleman". If John P is a son of Thomas P but calls himself gentleman, I suppose so could John Wall junior.  You might have to look at the actual documents to resolve that.

They certainly are a hard lot to pin down!

David

20
Gloucestershire / Re: Wall & Browne, Stay Makers, Taylors and Habit Makers
« on: Monday 07 August 23 22:01 BST (UK)  »
It's John Browne Wall (b1796) who was the apprentice to Weaver Davis and became an auctioneer; his father being John Wall the tea dealer.

I assume it's the same John Wall who gets two entries in the 1793, as part of Daniel & Wall, tea dealers and china men, and as an auctioneer. Both at Wine Street. So the son followed one of his father's trades.

There was at the time a very big shot in Bristol called Thomas Daniel, several times mayor and sometimes known as the "King of Bristol". He was primarily a sugar merchant but had  fingers in many other pies so I wonder if he could have been the money man in Daniel & Wall. But that doesn't tell us anything about the partnership between John Wall and John Browne. Browne had done the apprenticeship so presumably had the practical knowledge but - unless I've missed it - you haven't found anything about Wall's earlier career. He could be the brother-in-law who had the capital to help set up the business, or another peruke or stay maker who was an equal partner, or the junior partner taken on through family loyalty, and who soon found out that stays were not for him. I don't know if the order of the names is any indication of the seniority of the partners, in either firm.

Coincidentally, I live little more then a mile from Lambridge - but I don't have any local knowledge of Mary Ann Brown  :)

David

21
Gloucestershire / Re: Wall & Browne, Stay Makers, Taylors and Habit Makers
« on: Saturday 05 August 23 16:50 BST (UK)  »
It gets more complicated :)

There's a 1793 Bristol directory entry which has

Wall & Daniel, tea dealers and chinamen, Wine Street
John Wall, auctioneer, ditto.

Other directory entries, earlier and later, have John Wall in tea, china and financial services. He also subscribed to a book on double-entry book-keeping!

Later, John Browne Wall appears in several censuses as either an auctioneer or auctioneer and undertaker.

I'm guessing John Wall was a bit of a wheeler-dealer. Sometimes going into partnership with others but those didn't last long. His son carried on the auctioneering side.

It may be coincidence but there seems to have been a Dr John Wall who was a prominent physician but also involved in the development of Worcester Porcelain. At one point he also took over a porcelain factory in Bristol. I wonder if there's any connection to your John Wall?

David


22
Gloucestershire / Re: Wall & Browne, Stay Makers, Taylors and Habit Makers
« on: Saturday 05 August 23 12:08 BST (UK)  »
John Browne Wall was apprenticed to an Iron Merchant called William Weaver Davis in 1810. His father was given as John Wall, tea dealer. He became a burgess in 1818, apprentice to Weaver Davis, but as an accountant.

Bristol RO has leases from 1790 and 1820 involving John Wall, tea dealer.

So perhaps John Wall withdrew from his partnership with Browne sometime in the late 1780s and took up tea dealing.

There's also an apprenticeship record involving a John Wall that I don't understand.

A certain Thomas Davis was apprenticed to Edward Poole, Peruke maker, in 1786 and then transferred to a John Wall in 1789. John Wall's trade is not recorded and in the comments box there is "Not at this office    Discharged".

David

23
It's something like,

Elionaram f Edvardi Sandford & Catharina Bukland
f Edvardus Buckland & Margarita Guy    Curmun

i.e. Elionar daughter of Edward Sandford and Catherine Bukland,
daughter of Edward Bukland and Margaret Guy     Curmun

It could be Curmeen not Curmun. It could be Bickland rather than Bukland, or even Beekland. Not too sure of the vowels in Elionaram - and of course it was up to the writer how he Latinised the name the parents gave.

David

ETA. Looking again, that's not an "f" before Edwardus so I was wrong reading it as "daughter". I'm not sure what it is an abbreviation of, but I expect it means the last two mentioned are witnesses or godparents, as others have already suggested.

24
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Very old shorthand
« on: Friday 04 August 23 01:05 BST (UK)  »
I should have looked more closely at the original register (images are on FindMyPast). It seems that the shorthand sections are copies of comments that were included there (in ordinary writing). Mostly they are indeed just the locations of the graves. Some, like the entry for Jos. Whittuck, with some extra information.

I've attached a few entries corresponding to ones in the earlier attachment. (They come from different pages in the original, the transcript has fewer than one in 10 of the original entries.)

I suspect that the transcript was made in around 1840, when the non-conformists were obliged to send all their registers to the government. It is quite understandable that they might have made copies to keep, but I don't know why they would want such an incomplete copy. Also understandable that someone faced with copying a lot of data, perhaps with not much time, should use shorthand for the less important parts.

25
Gloucestershire / Re: John Brown of Thornbury, Clockmaker
« on: Wednesday 02 August 23 21:32 BST (UK)  »
It appears William was buried at Lewins Mead in 1833:

May 25  William Browne  late bookseller * Tozer  aged 75  In family Brick frame  Lee tomb

(I'd found that on Ancestry, but FindMyPast also have it. From a different register with slightly different wording. Tolzey rather than Tozer, which is presumably more correct.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA%2FRG4%2F3323%2F0%2F0112&parentid=TNA%2FRG4%2FBUR%2F306825

26
Gloucestershire / Re: John Brown of Thornbury, Clockmaker
« on: Wednesday 02 August 23 17:12 BST (UK)  »
I was going to say the same thing re Rebekah Brown. Lewins Mead in 1798 looks more likely. The Mrs Brown in 1799 could perhaps be Arthur's widow.

27
Gloucestershire / Re: John Brown of Thornbury, Clockmaker
« on: Wednesday 02 August 23 14:32 BST (UK)  »


Thanks for the head up about the Burgess and Apprenticeship Books. Do you know whether they include outlying areas like Bath, or is that a separate set of records?

Strictly Bristol. Probably not even including Bedminster.

Bath apprentice records are included in the Bath Ancestors database on the Bath Archives website. http://bathancestors.org.uk/fhSearch.php . Only 1706-1776 and not so much detail. The only William Brown I can see is a son of Peter, apprenticed to a butcher.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 ... 94