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Topics - goldie61

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28
Again from the Rodiere manuscripts of Montreuil sur Mer marriages.

1589 Jacqueline Fallempin, who had previously been married to Martin Morieul, married Hugh Vivier.

Several of these early contracts give a list of what items are brought to the marriage.
This one is interesting as it mentions her clothes, (presumably just some of her clothes - those worth any value).
Interestingly it doesn't mention what the groom is going to bring to the marriage.

I would be grateful for any corrections of words, or mis-interpretations of the text.
Thank you.


The said Jaqueline gives to her future husband various effects:,
amongst which: a short, black, fitted robe of velvet with a
crimson mantle; total value of the ensemble 8 ecus; a black woollen
garderobe; a gorgias with a satin collar and
a satin sleeved corset, value 3 ecus; a key hanger with an apple; all in
money value of 8 ecus.; - the which
effects she has declared to belong to him the moiety of her ?
and the other moiety  from the ? of the deceased Moriel
which she bought when the sale was made by command of the
justice ?   ecus that she has to pay to her and the deceased Moriel’s children



How would you translate ‘chef’ in this instance?

Evidently a ‘gorgias’ was a short cape like garment which covered the shoulders and neck.

What’s a ‘key holder with an apple’?!

29
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / French marriage 1747
« on: Saturday 04 February 23 21:35 GMT (UK)  »
Looking at the signature right at the bottom of this, there is a word between 'Marie' and 'Bertolle'.
Could it be 'veuve' - widow?
The text also names her 'Marie Marguerite Bertolle'.
Claude Bertolle had married Marie Marguerite Rabate in 1714.
Would there be some reason she would write that instead of her maiden name?
This is the first time I have seen  a French woman using the name of her husband.

The 'Antoinette Francoise Dubreuil' here, mother of the groom, was also a Rabate.
She married Charle Dubreuil in 1723.
So this is another instance where she is using , (or at least the writer of the entry, has written), her husband's name.
Jeanne Catherine 'Rabattez' is also mentioned here - she and Antoinette Francoise and Marie Marguerite were 3 sisters.
Jeanne Catherine was also married, but kept her birth hame and didn't use her husband's.

Any ideas as to why two of the sisters used their husbands' names?
Thanks very much.

I don't need a transcript or translation of the entry thanks.

30
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / A bit of French help
« on: Sunday 29 January 23 22:52 GMT (UK)  »
I have, very excitedly, received an entry for an ancestor in the books of the Hotel des Invalides in Paris.
This clip gives further information about him after his initial admission in 1691.

It's the middle bit I'm interested in.

On the Hotel des Invalides site it is transcribed as 'et le 14e septembre 1713 Il est de retour du service'

The English translation comes out as 'and on Septemeber 14th 1713 he returned from the service'.

Would French speakers agree with this?
And what does it actually mean?

From other information I have about him. I would be more likely to think he retired from the service  about that date. He certainly went to Montreuil sur Mer, (where he died in 1731 as the next entry says), presumably to the citadel there, where there seem to be many 'invalid' soldiers from time to time, as well as detachments of troops.
One of his daughters married in Montreuil sur Mer in Feb 1714, do they must have been in the town for a little time before that. That's the first date I can find any mention of the family in the town.

Any ideas?
Many thanks





31
London and Middlesex / Street in Spitalfields 1792
« on: Saturday 21 January 23 21:43 GMT (UK)  »
I have just found what must be the burial of my French ancestor, after scores of years - hooray!
22nd Nov 1792 Anthony Lewis 'Berlotte' at Christ Church Spitalfields.

I think the street given here as his place of residence is 'Farthing Street' - it's not easy to make out, but the same place is given on the page before which is just a tad easier to read.
I know it very close to Phoenix Street and Wheeler Street, but I cannot find it on the old map I have.
Many of these street were demolished to make way for the railways.

Does anyone have any ideas where it was?
Many thanks

32
Some time ago last year, several kind people helped me with the start of this marriage contract -
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=864247.0

I'm now getting round to finishing some of these contracts off, and would appreciate some help with the last part of this one.
From 'le futue apporte in jardin enclos de haies où il y a une grange situé audit lieu de Montesvis  tenant au chemin de la Calloterie audit lieu... .......'

1637 Marriage of Charles D’aire and Jehanne Senlecque

I’ve got the transcription, and translation, of the beginning of this marriage contract from the Rodiere manuscripts, but this part at the end is giving some information about what they are bringing to the marriage.
I suspect it will give some interesting information.
It seems to mention something about France and Spain at the end just before all the names of those who would have signed or made their marks -
Philipe Senlecque; Daire: marque de ladite Jehanne Senlecque, marque de ladite Fournier; Hedoul: Louis Hedoul.

Rodiere used a lot of abbreviations in these transcriptions, and this is going beyond simple birth, marriage or death entries in parish registers which I can just about make out.
Any insight appreciated!
Thank you very much.


33
What's this word between 'et an', and 'a été baptisé' please?

"des dits mois et an, ? été baptisé par moy"

'Claude Philippe Bertolle' as godfather here is given as 'son agent'? - have I transcribed that correctly? It may be 'ayent' I suppose.  He was actually the child's grandfather. Any ideas?

Thanks

34
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / 1681 Latin sasine - deleted, sorry
« on: Tuesday 10 January 23 22:02 GMT (UK)  »
Deleted

35
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / 1640 baptism France
« on: Tuesday 10 January 23 07:22 GMT (UK)  »
I would be grateful if someone could fill in any of the gaps after the godfather’s name in this baptism from 1640 at Montreuil sur Mer, pas de Calais.
This is a link to a previous posting over a year ago - at that time we were just really interested in getting the basic facts about Anne D’aire.
Now I’ve come to look at the finer detail!
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855353.9

‘Jacques du Pieron [       ] (is this something crossed out?), then Sieur du C…   
[           ] en la citadelle de Monstroeil
La maraine Anne de Crocq'


My assumption is that it’s giving some information about Jacques de Pieron, but you never know what clues may be hidden.

Thank you very much

36
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / French burial 1706
« on: Saturday 07 January 23 03:38 GMT (UK)  »
I'd be grateful for any corrections and additions to my attempt at this burial from the Fieulaine, northern France, register.

L’aujourdhui 19 decembre 1706 est decedeé Marthe Ansart de cette paroisse
ageé de quatre vingt trois ans ? apres avoir recu les sacrem(ents)
d’eglise ? femme d’antoine rabate en acte Inhumé la lendermain
dans la cimetiere de cette paroisse par moy pretre Curé soussigne espusee (?)
d ? rabate qui a fait marque avoir declaré ne savoir signeé et
de Jacque gorrier qui a signeé.


Many thanks.

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