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Messages - Nick_Ips

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The Common Room / Re: Westoe Village, South Shields, Co. Durham
« on: Friday 13 May 22 11:01 BST (UK)  »
Paul, could you please give the census references in which you find your Thompson ancestors living in a street called Westoe Village?

In common with Nick I believe what you are seeing in those censuses is simply a place-name, i.e. the village of Westoe, not a street name.
I have attached copies of the census forms that I have records of, showing the Thompson families.
1861 attached....

If you check the description of the ED for 1861 it lists various streets in the 'Township of Westoe', then 'Bents House farm' and various cottages, then "...., The Village of Westoe excepting the post office cottage turnpike gatehouse...."

So on subsequent pages I read "Westoe Village" as being the village generally, rather than the street presently given that name.

Although it has to be said that looking at the OS maps of that time there isn't much development other than along the street in question.

The Common Room / Re: Westoe Village, South Shields, Co. Durham
« on: Friday 13 May 22 10:07 BST (UK)  »
Earlier post, same subject
Hi Jen B, oh dear old age is not kind to me. I have no recollection of posting virtually the same question 6 years ago!!!. Normally I copy the question and paste the answers for my reference, however missed this one. Many thanks for reminding me. Paul

Don't worry about it Paul, I suspect I'm a lot younger, and often have trouble remembering what I did on my family history last week.  ;)

I didn't see your post first time round, and the 'refresher' has been interesting and useful to me.

The Common Room / Re: Westoe Village, South Shields, Co. Durham
« on: Thursday 12 May 22 14:04 BST (UK)  »

I could be wrong, but in my own research around South Shields I understood "Westoe Village" to refer to the area around the original village centre which existed prior to urban sprawl, rather than a specific street.  This is primarily from the context of use where you'd expect the name of a parish/village to be given rather than the street name.

I'd assumed that the street now known as "Westoe Village" was in effect the historic main street in the village, and at some point in time was named that as the original name (if there was one) was no longer relevant.  I know of some other examples where the street name and development pattern over time follows the same concepts.

Therefore it is possible that the references you are seeing to "Westoe Village" might be in the wider area rather than specifically this street?

Given the historic nature of the street I would expect the 'original' buildings would have been replaced multiple times over the years as they became derelict or no longer needed.  Therefore rather than clearance of slums, it may be more a case of 1890's replacement of existing buildings as the nature of the street changed and the older buildings decayed... much the same as any other high street over time.

However I'd also be interested if anyone has any definite answers....

Thanks for the additional assistance and comments, I grew up in Walkern and know this shop had been run by a family called Kitcheners for whom quite a bit of info is known, it's just the Ellicott and Peacock ownership which is the nut that's needed to be cracked, as to when they came in and how long they were there and their first names.  Ellicott does not seem to be a hugely common name, but even running digital newspaper searching doesn't tie that name to the village.

What is the earliest date the Kitcheners were recorded as running the shop?

I would also appreciate if any date could be provided for the likely period this photo was taken in.

This appears to be the same building as it now stands.  It might help with the dating.

I'd suggest it was purpose-built as a shop rather than conversion from a domestic dwelling.

Also, have you tried the Walkern History Society?

Edit: On the southern gable wall near the ridge there are a pair of 'white' bricks - these could be stones with names, initials or dates carved on them.  The streetview images aren't clear enough to see if there is any writing, but a local may be able to check and see.

Fantastic, thank you very much , so we have William Henry Ellicott and Francis Peacock.  :)

I'm not so sure.  It might just be a coincidence.

Watford and Walkern are a fair distance apart - you'd need to find evidence that they moved from one to the other.

Also, "Engineers storekeeper" is an occupation in an engineering works, not a (retail) shopkeeper.  An Engineers storekeeper runs the stores within the works - usually ordering things in and issuing them as required.  E.g. anything from protective clothing through to nuts and bolts.

As to alternatives - one thing to consider is the name of the shop may not be the same as the people running it at the time the picture was taken, or of the people living there.  It could be named after previous owners, or the current owners might live somewhere else.

I'd start by methodically trying to find the occupants for each census from 1841 through to 1921, and the 1939 register, and see what clues those throw up.  Also check the trade directories for Hertfordshire - both for traders in Walkern, and for shopkeepers withthose names.

The Common Room / Re: probatesearch website
« on: Thursday 03 March 22 11:39 GMT (UK)  »
I couldn't find a work around on edge, but the work around on firefox works wonderfully.

I don't have access to edge (I try very hard to keep it off my computer  ;) ) but a quick google suggests that the Firefox "No style" setting - which has the effect of disabling cascading style sheets (CSS) - has no direct equivalent in edge.

More googling leaves me thinking it would be easier to install Firefox than try to get it to work with edge.  Unless there are any expert edge users around who know a user-friendly way to disable CSS on a specific site/page without affecting anything else.

The Common Room / Re: probatesearch website
« on: Thursday 03 March 22 09:45 GMT (UK)  »
Incidentally, viewing the calendar isn't always possible, depending on where the person you want is located on the page. I searched for Edwards d 1928 and the first page to come up began part way through 'C' and the top of the page is obscured. I assume other searches would be similarly affected.

The search results come up in a seemingly random order, although anecdotally I've found more often than not the first few pages of the calendar are found towards the end of the results.

For your search criteria just now I found Edwards starts with Ada--> on image 11 and then with Alfred --> at the top of image 7. It would be interesting to see if other people doing the same search get the same order of images.

If the problem is with not being able to view the whole image, there's a workaround I suggested in Reply #2 on this thread -

This workaround still seems to work OK.

Pembrokeshire / Re: land registry
« on: Saturday 26 February 22 13:16 GMT (UK)  »
My ancestors have severally occupied the same house for 150 years. How can I find out its origins?
I have the historical 'bones of by family, but creating people out of them is more difficult.

The paper deeds would record the transfer of ownership of the property from one person to another (assuming such transfers actually took place and were recorded) but the Land Registry won't have any information unless the property has been registered.

Has the property been mortgaged or transferred in recent times?  If not, it may not be registered.

Also note that many 'paper deeds' for properties that have been registered have subsequently been destroyed - once any relevant (for registration purposes) information has been digitised.

It's something to note for anyone who has paper deeds held by a bank or building society* (or in some cases a solicitor*) - unless you've made a specific request for the paper deeds to be retained (and returned to you in due course) there is a risk of the paper copies being destroyed without your knowledge - if there is sentimental or historical interest in the documents this is something to look into.

(*the above shouldn't apply to cases where the service is safe document storage - it relates to where the deeds are held for mortgage purposes, or in some cases 'deeds storage')

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