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Messages - Darwin

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361
Banffshire / Gordon Kirkmichael Tomintoul
« on: Saturday 03 July 10 19:29 BST (UK)  »
Hello all

One of my ancestors is Ann Gordon.

Scotland's People OPR comes up with her marriage as follows:

Parish of Kirkmichael and Tomintoul
James Fleming, Grange, Keppoch & Ann Gordon, St Bridget both parties in this Parish were married 10th January 1833

Her death certificate says her father was Charles Gordon (farmer) and her mother was Jessie Gordon (MS Cameron).

Census returns mostly record that she was born in Kirkmichael around 1813 . The family were Roman Catholic.

The problem is that the Charles Gordon who lived at St Bridget's (at that time) married Elspet Stuart in 1816 and had a daughter Lillas (Lillias). No reference to a daughter named Ann or a previous wife.

Any ideas anyone?


 

362
Family History Beginners Board / Re: marital status on census
« on: Monday 09 March 09 09:35 GMT (UK)  »
fredflo,

On the question of marital status, perhaps it was simply an error by the workhouse?  And perhaps that description simply continued on (including when she was employed as a servant in the 1871 - perhaps recommended by the workhouse where her daughter Harriet had been born in 1869). And remember, she couldn't write and possibly couldn't read so she might well not have known how her marital status was recorded in the workhouse records or in censuses.  And she certainly would not have been the one completing the census forms.

Or perhaps she had to portray herself as unmarried in order to be accepted for poor relief?  I wonder whether there is any mention of her in the workhouse records.  Although the following site says relatively few records survive it might nevertheless be worth an enquiry to the Devon Records Office?:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Crediton/Crediton.shtml

On the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses, Elizabeth would have given the information herself and therefore she stated that she was a widow (either quite truthfully or for reasons of respectability).

Regards,

JAP

Thanks for the above suggestions. I did ask in the Devon office for the Crediton workhouse records a while ago and they didn't have much but I will pursue that and ask again.

I think the reason she might have been in Crediton was that the Union covered the birth village of her husband and I know for a while that a married/widowed woman came under the responsibility of her husband's Poor Law Union rather than her own, which was the South Molton Union.

She must have been the talk of the town with her constant trips back to the workhouse to have illegitimate babies and I wonder if after she had the last one, they made her stay there (to keep her from having any more).

Her own granddaughter (as an old lady) described Elizabeth as a "flighty piece", which she clearly was!

If anyone comes across any other instances of married woman having babies outside of marriage, where the birth certificate doesn't record the maiden name, I'd be grateful to hear about it.

Thanks for your interest in this one Jap.
Fredflo

363
Family History Beginners Board / Re: marital status on census
« on: Monday 09 March 09 09:13 GMT (UK)  »
Hello again fredflo,

I'm clutching at straws here but ...

I have been wondering whether the following death on FreeBMD might actually be your Christopher?

LEAMAN Christopher, death, June quarter 1865, Okehampton, Vol 5b, Page 265

LEAMAN is a believable mistranscription for SLOMAN.  It's not a mistranscription by the FreeBMD volunteers but could be an earlier mistranscription.

Supporting this suggestion is that, in the whole of FreeBMD (all places, all dates, all types),

a) there are only 2 records for a Christopher SLOMAN (and this is "your" Christopher) - his birth in the June quarter 1844, and his marriage in the June quarter 1864

b) there is only 1 record for a Christopher LEAMAN and this is the death record given above

What do you think?

JAP
Hi Jap
I wish it were my Christopher but it isn't. The 1861 census shows a Christopher Leman age 88 who was born in Okehampton and still living within the Okehampton reg, district so the death would be him.

It's possible he joined the Army and was killed overseas as that would explain the absence of any records. He would only have been a private though and there aren't any records of their deaths.

Thanks very much for taking a crack at this.
Fredflo


364
Family History Beginners Board / Re: marital status on census
« on: Sunday 08 March 09 13:32 GMT (UK)  »
If it's any help - here are the census returns for them

1871

Heazille Barton, Rewe, Devon
(living in with farmer & family)
Elizabeth Sloman serv. unm. 34 Serv general b. Devon, Burrington

Ware's Buildings, St Thomas, Exeter, Devon
(living with paternal grandparents)
Ellen Sloman G.Dau 6 scholar b.Devon, Ashreigney

27 High St Crediton, Devon
(living with Wm Hopkins & wife - age 55/53 - labourer) no relation
Harriet Sloman nurse child 1 yr b. devon, Crediton

1881

Union Workhouse Crediton
Elizabeth SLOMAN     U    41 F  Inmate  b. Burrington, Devon
Susan SLOMAN                6 F  Inmate  Crediton, Devon
William SLOMAN               9 M  Inmate  Crediton, Devon

Ellen still living with paternal Gparents in Exeter
Harriet living in with farmer's family as a servant in Shobrooke Devon

1884 Ellen puts Christopher Sloman shoemaker deceased as her father on her marriage cert.

1891
Tolleys, Crediton
Elizabeth Sloman Head Wid 43 charwoman b.Devon Burrington (age wrong by 10 yrs)

1899 Harriet puts Christopher Sloman shoemaker deceased as her father on her marriage cert. (either not been told she was illegitimate or was lying)

1901
Tolleys, Crediton
Elizabeth Sloman Head Widow 66 charwoman b. Devon Burrington

1911
Same as 1901 but aged 74


I don't think posting this in the Devon section would help as the question isn't about Devon or even the name - it's more about trying to find reasons why someone would be classified as unmarried when they are either a widow or still married (but not with husband and having other children).

365
Family History Beginners Board / Re: marital status on census
« on: Sunday 08 March 09 12:34 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Jap

(1st one copied from notes - my mother has this cert but she can't find it!)

Registration District Torrington Devon
16th September 1864 - Ellen Sloman - father Christopher Sloman cordwainer - mother Elizabeth Sloman nee Lee - Crab Down Ashreigney

The following are from the actual certs I have (all are Devon)

5th April 1869 Union Workhouse Crediton - Harriet - female - (father empty) - mother Elizabeth Sloman (occupation of father X) - X the mark of Elizabeth Sloman mother Union Workhouse Crediton - 17th April 1869 - William Backwell Deputy Registrar

1st September 1872 Union Workhouse Crediton - William - boy - (father empty) - mother Elizabeth Sloman (under the name is the word 'formerly' crossed out) Domestic Servant (occupation of father empty) - X the mark of Elizabeth Sloman mother Union Workhouse Crediton - 14th September 1872 - William Backwell Registrar

9th September 1875 Union Workhouse Crediton - Susan - girl - (father empty) - mother Elizabeth Sloman Domestic Servant (occupation of father empty) - William Vanston master of Union Workhouse Crediton - 9th September 1875 - William Backwell Registrar

Thanks for any help.


366
Family History Beginners Board / Re: marital status on census
« on: Sunday 08 March 09 11:53 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Charlotte
That could be a possibility for the 1871 census, although it's likely she got the position straight from the workhouse, where she had the 2nd child.

If that were the case, why would she be classed as unmarried on the 3 latter children's birth ceritificates as well as in the workhouse? They all had her husband's surname too (which she kept the rest of her life).

367
Family History Beginners Board / marital status on census
« on: Sunday 08 March 09 11:37 GMT (UK)  »
My GG Grandmother married in 1864 ( I have the certificate) and had a daughter that year. In 1869 she had another daughter (born in the workhouse), whose father is 'unknown' and my GG grandmother is named as unmarried on that birth certificate.

She then turned up as a servant in the 1871 census as 'unmarried' with both daughters farmed out to relatives. Two more children were born in the workhouse to fathers 'unknown' and each time she was labelled as unmarried. By 1881, she was in the workhouse with the last two children, still labelled unmarried. By 1891, she was out of the workhouse but classed herself as a widow, as she did in 1901 and 1911. She died in 1915.

There is no trace whatsoever of her husband after their daughter's birth in 1864.

I can't imagine they would have been divorced as they were too poor. Does anyone know if there was a policy of officials describing women as unmarried due to having children outside of the marriage? The whole thing is a complete mystery.

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