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Messages - lancaster.jim

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28
Lancashire / Re: Lancaster County Asylum 1889
« on: Monday 08 August 16 15:26 BST (UK)  »
Hi, Cristeen,

Thanks for the added information.  You wrote -

> I had suspected Clara was illegitimate and the marriage record I hopefully have attached corroborates this. I have not bought a marriage certificate yet but may have to if I want to solve this one.

The marriage record you have shown us is the entry for the marriage at Christ Church.  It states that the marriage was 'according to the rites and ceremonies of the Established Church'.  This means that the record shown is an image of one of the two records of the marriage made at the ceremony.  Marriages in the church of the Established Church (the Church of England) were (and are) recorded in each of two registers.  When they are full, one copy is kept by the church for religious purposes (and your copy will be from that one) and the other copy is sent to the local Superintendent Registrar as the record under civil law.

Sending for a marriage certificate will get you a copy (maybe handwritten or maybe a photocopy) of the second church register.  I have seen instances where the two registers differ, BUT the record you show is a complete record and is signed by the couple as being correct, so it is extremely unlikely that the civil copy will have different information.

I see Galium has already responded in a similar way.

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

29
Lancashire / Re: Lancaster County Asylum 1889
« on: Monday 08 August 16 13:44 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

You wrote -

> I have a marriage record from 1889 which states the bride's residence as County Asylum Lancaster. Did some employees live on site?

At this time there four County Asylums in Lancashire, Lancaster Moor Hospital, Whittingham, Prestwich, and Rainhill.  All of these were well away from centres of population.  This meant that most of the staff at this time would be housed on site.  For a better description of the asylum system and about Lancaster Moor in particular, have a look at -

http://www.countyasylums.co.uk/about/

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

30
Lancashire / Re: Catholic Convents in Liverpool
« on: Thursday 28 July 16 18:33 BST (UK)  »
Hi, Ann,

You ask about Leyfield Road Convent.

Have a look at Reply #18 in this thread where there is an explanation of Catholic child care provision in the Archdiocese of Liverpool.  This provision is now the responsibility of NugentCare and I quoted from its web-site -

 Its web-site is - www.nugentcare.org/   In the section about access to records, this site has –

Historical Records
Nugent Care has deposited historical records which relate to Liverpool-based institutions formerly run by us, including British Home Children, with the Liverpool Record Office, Archives & Family History Department, 3rd Floor, Central Library, William Brown Street, L3 8EN. Requests for these records should be made direct to the Liverpool record office.

Files held by the Liverpool Record Office are subject to the 100 year rule and files that fall within this period are closed to the public.
[endquote]

As it states, these records are closed for 100 years.  However usually there is provision for individuals to have access to their own personal records.  To find further details of such provision, you will need to contact NugentCare and discuss your particular request.

If you put 'Leyfield Convent' in a search engine you will get a number of hits, one of which is Children's Homes (http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/list/RC.shtml ) and this will give you some of the background to the home.

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs)

31
Lancashire / Re: What does I mean? - researching the Davenports of Radcliffe
« on: Tuesday 12 July 16 12:39 BST (UK)  »
You raise two queries -

> I wouldn't have thought of looking in Manchester as all the family lived in the Radcliffe/Pilkington/Prestwich area.

Lancsann agrees that the Collegiate Church was a popular place for marriages and suggests that it may have been cheaper than elsewhere.  I think that Hardwicke's Act and Anglican Church law required that the couple were married in the parish where one of them resided.  Lancsann shows "both gave address of Gt Ancoats St" which is fairly close to the Collegiate Church.  People from a wide area around Manchester used the Collegiate Church for their marriage and it is a bit of a puzzle as to the reason.  One reason I have heard is that being married in Manchester was something of an exotic place, just as today some people jet off to the Seychelles, etc.  This gave rise to some Mancunians allowing their address to be used as a place of residence to permit marriage in the Collegiate Church, so it is quite likely that the true place of residence could be outside the Parish of Manchester.  The question of cost seems to have related primarily to residents in the Parish of Manchester.  If they married at a licensed chapel of ease to the Collegiate Church, then they had to pay the standard fee to the minister who solemnised their marriage and also had to pay the same fee to the Collegiate Church as the Parish Church.  So, it was much cheaper to marry in the Collegiate Church.

> I don't understand why if the family are C of E there's one  child Baptised  in the Wesleyan Chapel and the rest c of E then later generations become Unitarian.

Marriage in an Anglican church does not mean that the couple being married were CofE, because the Anglican church is prepared to minister to all Christians.  Baptisms can also be a bit of a puzzle.  If you are not particularly religious and just want your child to be baptised then perhaps the nearest church would do.  The Wesleyan Chapel was probably the nearest one at Radcliffe Bridge (in the Township of Pilkington) which would be near the north end of Stand Lane.  The nearest Anglican church would have been St Thomas in Radcliffe on the other side of the river but not much further, though the official parish church would have been All Saints, Stand.  There were other non-conformist churches in the Radcliffe Bridge area,  Stand Lane New Jerusalem, Stand Lane Independent/Congregational, Chapelfield Primitive Methodist, Stand Unitarian, so there was quite a choice.  Just as today, the reasons people go to church or change the church they attend, are many and often not obvious.

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

32
Lancashire / Re: What does I mean? - researching the Davenports of Radcliffe
« on: Monday 11 July 16 18:58 BST (UK)  »
Hi, Aggie,

Have a look at LancashireBMD Marriages.  Search from 1843 to sometime after 1850, and look for William Davenport marrying Mary, anywhere in Lancashire (All Regions).  I think that almost all the marriages in Lancashire at that time are listed.

This site lists marriages in Anglican churches and marriages by the Registrar.  Marriages in non-Anglican chapels are listed as "Register Office or Registrar Attended" and so marriages in Stand Unitarian Chapel would be listed in this category.  Remember, too, that Manchester Collegiate Church (later Cathedral) was a VERY popular place for marriages, even if you did not live in the parish.

Hope this helps

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

33
Lancashire / Re: What does I mean?
« on: Saturday 09 July 16 19:54 BST (UK)  »
Hi, Aggie,

You have a conundrum and it seems to be getting worse.

Susan has pointed out the TWO surnames for Abraham's mother, which I had missed.  I have not found a death for Abraham.

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1843
DAVENPORT, Prometheus, Radcliffe, [Mother's Maiden Name] ASHWORTH   

There appears to be another(??) DAVENPORT / ASHWORTH family in Bury South (1844, 1846) in Radcliffe (1849).

There are TWO possible Martha births in 1849 -

DAVENPORT, Martha Ann, Prestwich, [MMN] DAVENPORT
Possibly an unmarried mother??
DAVENPORT, Martha, Pilkington, [MMN] DAWSON   PILK/11/16

There is a possible marriage -

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1858
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
DAVENPORT, William; DAWSON, Mary; Prestwich, St.Mary; CE18/19/448

This would require a death, possibly -

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1848
DAVENPORT, Mary, 36, Pilkington, PILK/6/87

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

34
Lancashire / Re: What does I mean?
« on: Saturday 09 July 16 18:33 BST (UK)  »
Further to the reply from MSR.  LancsBMD has -

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1839
Surname   Forename(s)   Sub-District   Registers At   Mother's Maiden Name   Reference

DAVENPORT   Abraham   Pilkington   Bury   LAYLAND   PILK/2/93

As this birth occurred in Pilkington this entry will be the child listed in the 1841 Census.  The same source shows that his parents married in 1838 in St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich -

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1838

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1838
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference

DAVENPORT   William   LEALAND   Mary   Prestwich, St.Mary   Bury   CE18/2/67


MSR's note could mean that Mary was a widow when she married William but there is nothing in these indexes to suggest that.  However, the marriage index did not always record alternative surnames.

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

35
Lancashire / Re: What does I mean?
« on: Saturday 09 July 16 18:04 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

You have a problem here because the 1841 enumerator is not consistent in the way he forms his letters.  Looking at the image of the page opening, the address is Stand Lane but the 'S' is quite different on the two pages. 

The family below the Davenport entry is Jarvis with a son James.  Again the two initial 'J' are quite different.  On the facing page there are two John entries, John Kirkman and John Makins.  These two 'J' are similar to one another but differ from the other two.  The form of these two 'J' suggests to me that the occupation may be 'Journeyman' and that it was probably used as equivalent to labourer.  There are 9 of these 'J' entries on this page opening, together with two coal miners and a coal dealer, so this looks rather like an industrial area.  Have a look at http://maps.nls.uk/view/102344051  In the top right hand corner you will find Radcliffe.  On the south side of the river is Radcliffe Bridge with Stand Lane going south-east from the bridge.  The area has several dye works, coal pits, etc.

You may need to be aware that Stand Lane at this time was part of the Township of Pilkington in the Parish of Prestwich, and was not in the Parish of Radcliffe.  There is a very useful explanation of the geography of the Hundred of Salford at around 1830 at 'Mancuniensis' (http://www.mancuniensis.info/ )

>a person in New York who said the family were Unitarian's which will explain why I can't find them on any record other than censuses.

There was an Independent chapel in Stand very early (??before 1700) and in about 1790 the independent chapels in the country gathered into two separate groups, Unitarians and Trinitarians, with the latter splitting into Congregational and Presbyterian.  The bulk of the Stand Independent congregation became Unitarian (Stand Unitarian Church) and the remainder left and formed Stand Lane Congregational Chapel (now Stand Lane URC Church).  These appear on the map with Stand Lane URC Church further south on Stand Lane opposite 'Chapel Field' and labelled Independent Chapel, and the Stand Unitarian Church further south still and just off Stand Lane, labelled 'Presbyterian Chapel. Both still exist today.

Hope this helps

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

36
Lancashire / Re: Catholic Mother & Baby Home Salford - Broome Lane
« on: Monday 20 June 16 22:52 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

As Stan has said, records from this period are still held by Caritas Diocese of Salford which is the social service umbrella for the diocese.

You should write to -

Caritas Diocese of Salford
Cathedral Centre
3 Ford Street
SALFORD      M3 6DP

There may be data protection issues for living persons, so you should explain carefully your query and your reasons for it ( - not for us to know).

Hope this helps

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

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