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Messages - janfurness

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I've finally found the famliy in 1851-Ancestry had mistrancribed the surname as Robbe. I checked the original online, it's unclear and Robert's place of birth is hard to read-it could be Bucks or Berks. Ancestry has Thorpe Berks. (Thorpe in Surrey is near Chertsey which would be lovely!)
If James was the son of a brother of Sophia, wouldn't he be described as nephew, not lodger in 1871?
Whereas she may not have owned her relationship to her illegitimate son. A birth certificate for James seems the way forward.

Still no luck with Sophia, but I've been delving further into the Rolfes. I haven't found the 1851 census record yet, and Robert died in Windsor in the second quarter of 1857, but I have found James and Ann. James's birth was recorded in the first quarter of 1841 in Windsor-James Robert Rolfe. In 1861 he is on a census in Clewer with Ann. They are living in the household of James and Sarah Godliman, aged 44 and 42, andtheir children. Confusingly their relationship to James the head of the household is described as daughter and grandson! I haven't found any relationship between Ann and the Godlimans.
Ann died in Windsor in 1870 and in 1871 James was living as a lodger in the household of the widowed Sophia Morton! Another link. :)
I do wonder whether James was Sophia's son rather than Ann's. Her dob on her death record was 1786, making her 55 when James was born.

Surrey / Re: Sophia Holford born about 1822 in Addlestone or Chertsey- help please.
« on: Wednesday 29 July 20 15:32 BST (UK)  »
Hello Paul, Nice to "meet" a distant cousin! I'm sorry I didn't see this before.
I think the family in 1841,with Robert, a cattle dealer, daughter Sophia and son Thomas, all near Windsor seem likely candidates for being Sophia's family and the surname Holford being written in error instead of Rolfe.
I've sent you a PM but I've just found another piece of circumstantial evidence.
I was looking at Robert Rolfes on ancestry and found a marriage record in Chertsey, Surrey for a marriage record in 1845 for Benjamin Rolfe, a soldier, father Robert Rolfe. (it's rather spoiled by this Robert being a labourer but it's possibly another error or a change of occupation.)
Sophia always gave her place of birth as Chertsey or nearby Addlestone. I can only find Chertsey baptisms for Benjamin in 1820 and Eliza Rolfe in 1822, parents Robert and Mary Rolfe. There are other Rolfe records in Chertsey so It's definitely a Chertsey surname.

Hello again, I wondered whether Ann White was the maiden name of John Dale's mother. Information from the muster books of H M Brig Martial in 1823 give his birth as about 1796 in Middlesex, England. There are a number of possible candidates, but I haven't been able to find any definite baptismal record for him, so I don't know the names of his parents. They seem to have used names from Mary's family, so perhaps some of the other names come from John's. They seemed to like the name Ann, their youngest daughter born 24 years after Ann White was called Anne Maria!

Hello Hope,
Nice to hear from you. My great great grandmother was Mary and Robert's eldest daughter, Ann White Dale. So we share Mary and Robert as our 3x great grandparents. I'm not sure what that makes us- 3rd or 4th cousins perhaps?
Best wishes, Jan

Norfolk / Re: Can anyone find Clara Elizabeth (Clarissa) Tann after 1861 please?
« on: Friday 17 April 20 17:44 BST (UK)  »
You should never give up!
I posted this enquiry seven years ago and I think that I've just found Clara Elizabeth. A combination of a random Ancestry hint and FreeBMD led me to her. Her life wasn't straightforward!
In 1871 and 1881 she was living with the wonderfully named Horace Bolingbroke Reeve, a piano tuner, as his wife, in Norwich . I can't find a record of their marriage and it's likely that Horace's first wife didn't die until 1878.
In 1891 they are in Leyton in Essex, Horace is a musician and Clara is a machinist. In 1892 they had a son, William Horace, baptised Willie Horace. By this time Clara was 50. I can't find a record of any other children.  Clara's birthplace of Bawburgh(misspelled but clear) in 1871 and 1891,makes it fairly certain it's her.
In 1894 Horace died and in 1896 Clara married Henry Hubbard, a widower with 3 children, in Stratford Essex. The marriage record in the Essex C of E marriage records give her name as Clara Elizabeth Reeve and her father's name as John Tann.
In 1911 the census places Clara and William in a household in Hackney with Henry, a "scavenger"(?) with the Borough Council, and his eldest, unmarried daughter and her 2 children. Again her birthplace is recorded as Bawburgh.
Henry died in 1912 in Poplar, and Clara in 1916, in Hackney. Her age is given as 67, whereas she was 74 but, again, I'm fairly certain it's her.

All comments, positive or negative, gratefully received!

The Common Room / Re: What is slyde groat and was it illegal in 1632?
« on: Wednesday 15 April 20 13:16 BST (UK)  »
I've just been searching further into the life of Thomas Toft and I have discovered, thanks to the, that he was ordained a priest in 1633 and later became rector of St Michael at Plea in Norwich.
So- presumably he felt he was doing his pastoral duty.

Norfolk / Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« on: Thursday 09 April 20 18:03 BST (UK)  »
I hadn't thought of Lydia joining a non-conformist church, I imagined something far more sinful(!)but that's possibly what happened. There was a Baptist and a Congregational church in Yarmouth at the time, or possibly she joined the Quakers as you suggested, Bristolian.
Whichever chuch it was either she, or her daughter Deborah,obviously changed her mind when it came to Anne's baptism.
I've checked Ancestry, Freereg and Family Search, but I can find no further reference to either Anne or Deborah.
Lydia's husband Christopher left a will, the NRO have the probate records, but I don't have any details. Presumably Lydia was sufficiently provided for so she could have supported Deborah and Anne.
Interestingly, Christopher seems to have been fairly litiginous. There are references to his being a plaintiff in a case concerning property in Oby, where he was rector, in 1654 and to another case with his brother John, where they were plaintiffs in a case, again concerning property, this time in Norwich. These are listed in the National Archives catalogue, but again, I don't have any details.

Norfolk / Re: What does "By a tricke put a bastard upon the church" mean?
« on: Thursday 09 April 20 14:19 BST (UK)  »
Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I wondered if it was connected to parish relief
Lydia was married to Christopher Spendlove in 1651 at the age of 20, and they had 8 children born between 1652 and 1674. Deborah is the only one for whom I don't have a baptismal record. In fact the record of Anne's baptism is the only record I have for her. So I don't know when she was born or when Anne was likely to have been born. (I'm assuming that she was fairly young when Anne was born.)
Christopher Spendlove was rector of St Nicholas from 1665 to his death in 1678. By then Lydia was 47. I wonder what she did when she left the community of the church and led her daughter thither. Obviously she was blamed for her daughter becoming a "fallen woman."

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