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Topics - janfurness

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The Common Room / Petition to put mothers' names on marriage certificates
« on: Sunday 06 July 14 09:39 BST (UK)  »
I received this petition from  I signed it not only because of the need for equality and natural justice, but also on behalf of future family historians!  :)
I will try to include a link

Herbert Oscar Dale was the youngest of 8 children born to David Robert and Maria (nee Manning) Dale.He was born 25 January 1877.  His birth was registered at Tendring. David was employed by the Trinity Service as the master of a lightship.
In 1881 aged 4 Herbert (referred to as Oscar) was with his parents in Harwich. In November 1884 Herbert, together with his next older sister Bessie Maria, was registered as a pupil at Oban St School, Poplar, their address was given as 35 Benledi Street.
In 1891 Herbert (again recorded as Oscar) was back with the family in Dovercourt. After that-nothing. ???
His mother died in 1895 and by 1901 his father was living with the oldest sister Lucy and her husband in Lewisham. I've traced the rest of his siblings -his brothers nearly all had a maritime connection-merchant seaman, sailmaker, ship's carpenter and lighthouse-keeper, and one who managed to be variously army pensioner, gardener and greengrocer's assistant to Lucy's husband.
But- there is no sign of Herbert Oscar  :(
I've looked on Ancestry and FreeBMD and can't find any census records or any obvious marriage or death records. He could have joined the navy or the army but I'm not sure where to look. He isn't on the Trinity list of lighthouse keepers and if he was on a lightvessel I would expect him to appear on the census.
Can anyone help please?

Norfolk / Do you think I've found Anthony Royal's birth and parents?
« on: Tuesday 03 June 14 14:29 BST (UK)  »
This mariner was the subject of a rootschat question that generated a lot of interest between 2008 and 2013
 I've been looking a bit further and have come up with some theories which I'd really like an opinion on please.  ???

The most likely birth record for Anthony seems to be a baptism at St Johns Timberhill  Norwich in 1774 to Thomas Royall and Elizabeth Moore. The couple married in the same church in 1767, Elizabeth was a widow. Anthony was an unusual name and there are no other likely baptism records. His census returns give 1778 as an approximate birth year so 1774 seems possible. The census also places his birth in Yarmouth , but if he moved there as an infant he may have considered it his pob.  :-\
There were other sons-Thomas 1770 and John 1771. Then in Yarmouth, Robert 1776 and Nursey 1778 died 1779, and finally Mary 1780.
Thomas died in 1799, unusually his burial record gives  both his age 29 and his parent's details- Thomas and Elizabeth, mother nee Moore. (Obviously she wasn't born Moore but it was her name before marriage) This seems to confirm the fact that Thomas and Elizabeth moved from Norwich to Yarmouth.
I haven't found a birth for Thomas in either Norwich or Yarmouth. BUT there was an Anthony Royall who was baptised in Yarmouth on 12th November 1738, son of Anthony Royall and Alfrita (spelling varies widely!)* Dye. Among Anthony and Alfrita's children was one called Nussey bap 1745. It doesn't seem impossible that Thomas was one of the children of Anthony and Alfrita and his baptism record is missing. Other children were George, Elizabeth and James. (Anthony Royal named 2 of his younger sons George and James)

Finally a burial record Yarmouth 1801 Elizabeth Royal aged 59- notes Her maiden name was Read. Thomas Reed was the name Anthony Royal used when he first enlisted in the Navy.

Oh -and Anthony's first son, by an earlier marriage,was named Thomas. Thomas was born in Plymouth in 1816, but his marriage to Elizabeth Cook in Yarmouth in 1839 names Anthony Royal as his father.

Most of the records are on Freereg and some are also on Ancestry.
There are several trees on Ancestry but they seem to send the family across Norfolk to Methwold and Tilney so I suspect their Thomas is part of different family

I would love to know what other people think.   :)

Norfolk / Elizabeth Dale born about 1835 Norfolk
« on: Friday 30 May 14 15:05 BST (UK)  »
I have a mysterious daughter in my tree and I can't track her down. She appears on the 1841 census in Great Yarmouth
HO107; Piece: 794; Book: 2; Folio: 20; Page: 33 
She is with her parents John Dale a mariner and Mary Dale nee Tubbs, and siblings in (I think Carleton Buildings) Yarmouth. Her name is given as Elizabeth Dale born Norfolk aged 6.
Her oldest sisters were baptised in Plymouth and in Bute, obviously their mother was on board ship with her husband, a gunner. Thereafter they settled in Yarmouth where the other children were baptised.
Freereg has baptisms for them but not for Elizabeth or any other name that could be her -eg Ann Elizabeth (there's an Ann and Ann Maria  and a Mary already in the family!)  By 1851 Mary was in Harwich with 2 younger children but no sign of Elizabeth. John Dale died there in 1858.
I can't find any other records for Elizabeth. I've tried Lizzie, Bessie and Betsey but there is nothing certain.
Does anyone have any suggestions please?

Robert Richard Royal was born in Yarmouth in 1820. On the 1861 census he was a lodger in Yarmouth but in the 1871 census he has a wife-Caroline born about 1833 in Northampton and a daughter-also Caroline born 1861 in "Lynn".
By 1881  his wife Caroline is now a widow-a fish monger giving her birth year as 1840, and the same in 1891. She also appears twice in Kelly's directory in 1888 and 1892 living in Row 129.
I cannot find a marriage record for her or a birth record for daughter Caroline. There is no further mention of daughter Caroline in the censuses or a death record. Nor can I find a death record for Robert Richard Royal or Caroline his widow.
I have used Ancestry, Freereg and FreeBMD.
I would be grateful if someone can find them or has any suggestions. ???

I have received a message on Ancestry from a possible very distant relative in Tasmania.
She is looking  for a direct ancestor- William Hambling born 1755 who she believes to be a son of Timothy Hambling and Sarah Palmer. They married in South Elmham St Peter, May 1755 and had sons James 1756 and Robert 1765. These records are all on Ancestry and on Freereg.
William appears on 3 family trees -(I have suggested she contacts the tree owners) but I can't find any other records of him.
Timothy's own ancestry is slightly doubtful. Freereg has a baptism for him in March 1731, South Elmham St Margaret son of John Hambling. John Hambling and Elizabeth Aggas had 7 chlidren between 1706 and 1726(including my 6thx g grandfather Jeremiah b 1710) but Elizabeth died in 1729 so either Timothy had a different mother or he wasn't baptised until he was 4.
I hope someone may be able to help. ??? Jan

World War One / Army Service Corps
« on: Sunday 23 March 14 17:07 GMT (UK)  »
I am trying to track down my uncle's WW1 service record on Ancestry. I know he was born in 1900, lied about his age and joined up as a bandsman. I've found a record for the Army Service Corps, could that be him? There is no address on the medal record, so it's far from certain.
His name was Robert Hector Cooper of Hitchin, Herts.
His older brothers joined the Royal Berkshire Regiment, but they were both born in Reading. I'm not sure if allocation to regiment was based on birth, residence or vacancies!

The Common Room / Were causes of death linked?
« on: Saturday 22 March 14 17:31 GMT (UK)  »
I was looking through a box of postcards left by my aunt, my father's eldest sister, and found a card from their father picturing Hatfield Sanatorium. It made me curious about his cause of death so I sent for his death certificate and that of his youngest daughter.
Sure enough my grandfather' s cause of death, aged 44 in December 1911 was given as PHTHISIS, which the dictionary assures me was TB or consumption.
Just over 4 years later, in the same house, his youngest daughter, aged 10 died of: " 1) CONSUMPTION OF THE BOWELS 2) SYNCOPE"
I've looked up syncope which appears to be temporary loss of consciousness due to low blood pressure, but maybe it had a different meaning in February 1916. I have never heard of consumption of the bowels, only of TB of the lungs or bones.
I wonder if the deaths were linked in any way.  I know TB was highly infectious, but I don't know if consumption of the bowels was a type of TB or a bowel disease that might have a different name now. I've tried looking up links to old medical terms but can find no clue about the cause of the illness or whether the illnesses were linked. I'm hoping someone else is better informed than me.

The Common Room / Was there compensation for industrial injury in 1824?
« on: Saturday 11 January 14 06:50 GMT (UK)  »
 My gg grandfather was dismissed from a bookbinding apprenticeship in Stratford on Avon  for dishonesty in 1817.
He married in Birmingham the following year and in 1824 had become a wine and spirit merchant in Wrexham. He went bankrupt and did not attend the hearing. The newspaper described him as:blind of the right eye, and his other eye is remarkably odd formed

It has occurred to  me that he could not have been a bookbinder if he was partially sighted. So I wonder-did he return to his home town of Birmingham and work in industry and was he then injured?
Would an employer have paid compensation for injury? This is pure speculation on my part-I've always wondered where he got the money for the move to Wrexham and the setting up of his business- perhaps compensation might explain it.

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