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Messages - Gardener

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Leicestershire / Re: big ask for a look up please
« on: Friday 28 April 17 16:18 BST (UK)  »
And his medal card gives an older regimental number too: 1439

Leicestershire / Re: big ask for a look up please
« on: Friday 28 April 17 16:10 BST (UK)  »
It also gives his age on discharge as 24 years and 7 months, which would make him born 31 May 1893 (if it is correct).

New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Crimean war records
« on: Friday 31 March 17 08:54 BST (UK)  »
The National Archives would be the place to start I suppose

(but don't expect too much)  :)

I think John Thomas was back in Walsall in 1901.

John Brittan boarder aged 38 leather cutter Walsall

It says he is single, but the address is 3 Great Colmore Street, and that is the address on the marriage to Minnie.

I think it is Maggie who was born in Sheffield :-)

Minnie Brittain    38 wife
Alice Elliott    19 dau
Maggie Brittain 13 stepdau
Frank Carroll    29 nephew
Albert Carroll    6 nephew

1903 marriage
Minnie Matilda Elliott and John Thomas Brittain
Fathers: George Frederick Davies and John Brittain

1901 census
Providence Road, Sheffield
Maggie Brittain 3 gdau Sheffield
(Grandparents John and Hannah Brittain)

Carr Road, Sheffield
John Brittain, wife Hannah + family

John T Brittain 16
(Parents John and Hannah Brittain)

In the marriage details John T's father occupation is leather worker and he is bridle cutter or similar in census.

Maggie's mother seems to have been Margaret Collett, with a marriage in 1897. I think she died the same quarter as Maggie was born.

Providence Street and Carr Road both look to be the same area of Sheffield as Duncombe (Duncum) Street, which was the odd birth address on the 1911 census.


His name is Frank Carroll. He was born on 18/08/1885. I got the Mr Bolli info from his army service record dated 17/10/1900.

Frank lived on New John Street, and Mr Bolli lived on Pritchett Street, so they were pretty close to each other.

I had another look, and I think that these are all the same people:

Franciscus Carroll born 18/8/1885, bapt 12/9/1885 Birmingham
Parents Jacobi Carroll and Helenae Reating Carroll
FHL film no. 1999524
(siblings seem to have mother as Riding/Reading and father as Cahill, and possible births and the 1881 census fit)

1891 census
Francis Carroll 6
(parents James and Helen)

1901 census
Frank Carroll porter bottler
(living with married sister Anne Hicks and their brother Richard)

Richard Carroll marries, Frank Carroll is witness

Frank Carroll marries Nellie Bumford
Witnesses Harry Davies and Ellen Bumford

1911 census
Frank Carroll 29
(living as "nephew" of Minnie Brittain 38, and with Albert Carroll aged 6)

Backtracking on Minnie:

1901 census
Minnie Elliott 29 wid
Mrs Rumford 33 wid sister
Nellie Rumford 15 niece
Harry Davies 16 brother

1891 census
Minnie Elliott 20
(married to Harry)

Mar qtr 1890 marriage
Minnie Davies
Harry Elliott

1881 census
Nellie Davis 14
Minnie Davis 10
(sisters, parents Frederick and Ann)

Everything is Birmingham for locality/birthplace.

So, even though the the 1911 census seems to have Frank Carroll born in Sheffield (and the image is a bit confusing) I still think it is him because Aunt Minnie Brittain was originally Minnie Davies and sister to Nellie Davies who married William Bunford. They were the parents of Nellie Bumford who married Frank Carroll. And I suspect that the witnesses to the marriage were Nellie's uncle Harry Davies and her mother Nellie/Ellen Bunford.

The surnames are all a bit over the place: Bumford/Bunford/Rumford; Davis/Davies; and I suspect Carroll/Cahill. But I think it all holds together.

Who did your Frank marry?

If he is in the 1911 census then he may have entered the firms name. What is his name?

I don't think Frank Carroll, my ancestor or Mr Bolli is in the 1911 Census, and I've tried looking.

Is Frank perhaps living with his "aunt" Minnie Brittain in 1911? She would be his wife's aunt I think, on her second marriage. There is an Albert Carroll aged 6 there as well.

Or is that the wrong guy altogether?

Have fun! There seemed to be a brother for Joseph, and maybe a half-brother too. This site helps find births with the same mother's maiden name

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