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Messages - diseymary

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: COPESTAKES of Derbyshire
« on: Tuesday 14 March 17 04:17 GMT (UK)  »
Hi goldie61,

Thank you for your thoughts on Hugh Copestake, Rebecca Copestake was the informant on his birth registration. I will just have to accept that he was illegitimate with unknown father.


Family History Beginners Board / Re: COPESTAKES of Derbyshire
« on: Sunday 12 March 17 04:38 GMT (UK)  »

Elizabeth (Betty) Copestake definitely married Thomas Wallis, those question marks near his name are a mistake! 

Family History Beginners Board / Re: COPESTAKES of Derbyshire
« on: Sunday 12 March 17 04:35 GMT (UK)  »
Hello, I have another question on the Copestakes:

William Copestake (1780-1857) son of Joseph and Lydia married at age 39 to Frances Dallman and had 9 children - William, Mary, Frances, Joseph (1825-), Robert, Charles, Rebecca (1830-1910), Jane and Elizabeth (1833-1912).
Hugh Copestake (1855-1899) grandson of William is the line I am following. Hugh was illegitimate, there is conflicting information. Baptism records state mother was Susannah Copestake, but cannot find her anywhere, (I think she is imaginery). I ordered birth certificate for Hugh, mother was Rebecca Copestake, no father named. Hugh was brought up by his aunt Elizabeth (Betty) who  ???married Thomas Wallis.
1861 census he is Hugh Copestake, nephew
1871 census he is Hugh Wallis, son
He married Frances Dallman 1878 in Derby and it states his father's name is Joseph Copestake.
This is my question, do you think this is a lie just because he didn't want to say he was illegitimate or is it possible his uncle Joseph was his father? Where the name Hugh comes from is interesting as there aren't any Hugh Copestakes in previous generations. I wonder if the unnamed father was Hugh.

Appreciate any thoughts, thank you

Family History Beginners Board / Re: COPESTAKES of Derbyshire
« on: Friday 10 March 17 00:41 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you for your ideas and suggestions.
Joseph Copestake died 1818 made his will 1813, wife is mentioned several times without a name for her. He was a blacksmith. The children are all named, no ages or occupations:
John C, Lydia Blackham, Jane C, Martha C, Charles C, William C, Joseph C
Lydia appears to be the only married daughter (m. John Blackham 1807 Duffield)
The baptisms for the children come from Family search, but originals not seen.
In his will is mentioned Chessnage (?difficult to decipher) shop farm and land, his executors were Charles Heaton farmer of Auden/Masden?? and William Redfern.

The signature of Joseph C blacksmith, on 1760 marriage to Sarah Cockayn and signature of Joseph C blacksmith 1813 will are very alike.
I will look into the childrens' lives further.

I am researching Copestakes who were my mother-in-laws paternal line.

Many thanks

Family History Beginners Board / COPESTAKES of Derbyshire
« on: Wednesday 08 March 17 23:26 GMT (UK)  »
Hello, I have tangled myself and trying to sort out parentage of Joseph Copestake.
Joseph Copestake and Lydia Heaton had 7/8 children, I cannot find a marriage for them, he came from Bradley, Derbyshire, Lydia from Ipstones, Staffordshire.
John born ?1775, Lydia 1777, Jane 1778, William 1780, Jane 1783, Joseph 1785, Martha 1787, Charles 1791.
There is a will of Joseph Copestake death 1818, in which he states his eldest son John, but John is the only child that I can't find a baptism for with parents Joseph and Lydia, found all the others. His will doesn't name his wife, makes provision for her and mentions all the kids names.
There is a Joseph Copestake baptised 11 July 1743 at Osmaston by Ashbourne, father John.
There is a Joseph Copestake baptised 8 July 1733 at Bradley, parents Joseph Copestake b. 1699 and Martha Brassington b. 1705, J & M also had Joseph born 1732, William 1734, unnamed son 1737, Jane 1740, George 1742.
1733 Joseph married Sarah Cockayn?
Joseph who died 1818 was aged 84, makes him born 1733.
Can anyone help me decide which Joseph is the one in the will, who his parents are and find a marriage for Joseph and Lydia.
Many thanks.

Family History Beginners Board / Voting rights of prisoners
« on: Friday 24 June 16 17:43 BST (UK)  »
Once prisoners had served their time in prison in the early 20th century, would they then have been able to register to vote for future British national elections or because they had a criminal record did that preclude them from ever voting again?
Thank you

Family History Beginners Board / Re: Alice Maud Rennicks
« on: Friday 15 April 16 22:39 BST (UK)  »
Where do I go looking to find the 1913 court trial of Walter Shirley, is it the National Archives or does another Government body keep all the original documents from court cases?

Family History Beginners Board / Re: Alice Maud Rennicks
« on: Friday 15 April 16 14:04 BST (UK)  »
Hi everyone, thanks for your speedy responses.

Looking at the marriage certificate of Walter George Shirley and Alice Maud Rennicks, they have both given ages as 21, although Walter was born 16 Oct 1888, which makes him age 20.
The witnesses are: Gladys Edith Gardner and C.E. Weeks, presumably Register Office witnesses as they aren't names known in the family. All the handwriting on the certificate is the same completed by one person including the signatures for Walter, Alice, Gladys and C.E. Weeks, presumably Henry S. Date the Deputy Registrar.
Walter is listed on the 1901 census as age 12 with the family living at 25 Leigh St.
On the 1911 census he has been wrongly transcribed as "Walker" instead of "Walter", he gives his birthplace as Kings Cross.
1911 census his job is listed as Insurance Assistant Supt, married, but on census night visiting 130 St. Pauls Rd, Camden Town NW with Samuel Henry McGowan.
The next sighting of Walter is he joined the Army Pay Corps 26 Oct 1914 in York. (personal papers)
He married Annie Eliza Atkinson 24 July 1916 in York, lists himself as bachelor.
Walter, Annie and their son Stanley emigrated to Sydney 1950 to join their daughter, my mother.
I will look at the National Archives reference for the court case of Alice, now I have a lead to follow, I just didn't know what had become of her.
That then makes my grandfather Walter a bigamist also, does that have any ramifications for the children of his second marriage?
I don't believe Annie ever knew of Walter's first marriage, I went through Walter's personal effects and there is absolutely no evidence of Alice, no papers, no photos. Walter died when I was in my 20s and he certainly kept that part of his life a big secret!
As an aside, Walter's Regimental number is: 2682, in the Army Pay Corps. (from his personal papers), but I can't find him on the British army records, any suggestions?
This may be far fetched but I found a criminal record for a Walter Shirley, sentenced to 15 months hard labour at Wormwood Scrubs Prison, on 7 Oct 1913 (Find My Past) for robbery.
The only reason I associated him as a possible is his occupation is given as "Agent". Would the army employ someone with a criminal record?
I can't find any prisoner records for Wormwood Scrubs for 1913.
Thanks everyone

Family History Beginners Board / Alice Maud Rennicks
« on: Thursday 14 April 16 12:24 BST (UK)  »
Hello, last year I discovered that my grandfather Walter George Shirley had married 26 June 1909 in St. Pancras Register Office an Alice Maud Rennicks, both aged 21 and both living at 26 Bernard St, St. Pancras, London. Her father is given as Bernard Rennicks, farmer.
No-one in the current family knew of this marriage as he subsequently married my grandmother, Annie Eliza Atkinson in 1916 in York, where he is listed as a bachelor.
I have been unable to find any trace of Alice, she doesn't seem to exist before this marriage and I don't know what became of her. Neither can I find a Bernard Rennicks, a farmer.
There is a stonemason in Ireland called Bernard Rennicks with a large family but no Alice.
There is an Alice Rennix in Sunderland, Co. Durham but different parents.
There is an Alice Shirley, age 24, single, staff nurse, born in India on the 1911 census.
Walter is listed on the 1911 census as married but visiting at home of Samuel Henry McKewan.
I ordered a death certificate for an Alice Shirley who died in Essex late 1909, but wrong girl.
Any ideas or suggestions greatly appreciated. Thank you

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