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Messages - jenn270

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28
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 20:08 BST (UK)  »
I guess so often we have to work back in the family line before we can move forward so it's all pertinent. Thanks for pointing out the Devon connection. Some things we may never know which is why we were so hopeful we might find any descendants of Charles...

I realise we are going off the search for Charles but I would imagine that is going to be very difficult because of the surname.
Thanks for the explanation re the Whittakers. I just couldn't see the connection.

I can't see any connection to Eliza/Elizabeth Rose but the male at that address in 1861 and 1871 has a Devon birthplace.

29
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 17:50 BST (UK)  »
I *think* it would be the mother if it's the right person but I believe there were other Eliza Amelia Smith's with Smith being the maiden name. Records indicate that the daughter's name was Elizabeth Amelia and that she never married. She would have been 17 or 18 in 1896.

Hi

Marriages Sep 1896   (>99%)

De Bell  Joseph Henry      Wandsworth  1d 1181   
Smith  Eliza Amelia     Wandsworth  1d 1181   
Squibb  James                Wandsworth  1d 1181   
Sullivan  Margaret          Wandsworth  1d 1181   

 mother or daughter ?

Regards Marj

30
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 17:45 BST (UK)  »
What I posted yesterday seems never to appeared here so I shall try to retype much of what I said which may answer some of your questions.
The family in Canada knows for sure that Eliza/Elizabeth Smith married John Whittaker (Mar. 1904) and ironically John's youngest daughter Rose Whittaker (b. 1892) married Albert George Smith in 1919. Albert served in the Canadian Forces during WWI and they must have connected during his time in England. Rose came back to Canada with him that year. John Whittaker's marriage record says that he married an Eliza Crisp so I was assuming that she had married someone else after her husband abandoned her or else she gave a false name or an incorrect one was recorded.
All of Eliza's children had the same father so I think you are referring to the discrepancy in her father's names. On the 1911 census, when she is listed with John Whittaker as his wife (name shown as 'Elizaburth') she says she was born in Paddington and gives an exact street address. 4 or 5 years ago I tried researching that address and any who may have lived there but I did not find any connections at all. I have just hauled out all the old files and will see if there is anything on any record that would help but I am quite sure I was very careful before ever putting them away.
Perhaps Charles Smith and his older sister Alice wound up having happy lives in adulthood; we can only hope so! The eldest sister Elizabeth Amelia Smith died at the age of 26, unmarried, with a 5 year old son named George Roland Smith. Dr. Barnardo's records say that he was sent to Quebec in Canada but I can find nothing on him here. We know nothing more about Alice. Ada & brother Albert worked for various people when sent to Canada before they were teenagers. It would seem though that there was some contact with their mother as Ada had a picture of her mother as an older woman.

Both would appear to be the right person but why the discrepancy in places of birth I don't know! Perhaps she lived in Paddington at one time and gave that as her place of birth.

Jennifer


Jennifer,
It's all so sad!
May I ask how you know that Eliza Amelia (Rose) Smith became Elizabeth Crisp then Elizabeth Whittaker.
I am puzzled and worried about the different fathers and the year and place of birth discrepancies.
Heywood

31
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 16:51 BST (UK)  »
It certainly could be! Thank you again. Not sure why he wound up there but I suppose it all depended on who would take the children. The Barnardo report says that his mother tried to keep him with her but the woman she worked for wouldn't continue to employ her if she did because he was too noisy!

I agree with the sightings Ambly has posted re Eliza.

Is this Albert in 1891    849/32/2

Harting, Sussex

Geo Chitty   51 yrs
Ruth Chitty 46 yrs
Harriet Chitty 14 yrs
William Chitty 10 yrs
Albert G Smith boarder 5yrs b London
Arthur Denham boarder 5 yrs

32
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 14:26 BST (UK)  »
Thank you so much for the link to the 3 girls! How horrible though that they were living in the 'Girls Village Home for Orphan Neglected and Destitute Girls'. Do you recall where you saw Albert listed?
Jennifer

Sorry Jamjar - I was just pointing out that the references were there if Jennie couldn't find it.

Jenn,
Do you have the children in 1891? I think I saw a reference to Albert and Charles is with mum
but just found the girls in Ilford.

1891 1370/109/32

Elizabeth Amelia, Ada and Alice.

33
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 14:16 BST (UK)  »
Both would appear to be the right person but why the discrepancy in places of birth I don't know! Perhaps she lived in Paddington at one time and gave that as her place of birth.

Jennifer

I did see an earlier thread where you mentioned the birth place here

1911 Elizabeth Whittaker b 1862 Paddington

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW85-3HN    Is this Elizabeth?

1881 Eliza Smith b 1855 Devon

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK65-6W6T

34
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 13:10 BST (UK)  »
Charles was the only child able to remain with his mother so what you found certainly is in line with that; thank you. I will look at the listing for the girls.

Sorry Jamjar - I was just pointing out that the references were there if Jennie couldn't find it.

Jenn,
Do you have the children in 1891? I think I saw a reference to Albert and Charles is with mum
but just found the girls in Ilford.

1891 1370/109/32

Elizabeth Amelia, Ada and Alice.

35
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Friday 29 July 16 12:57 BST (UK)  »
Replying to Ambly...

(For some reason I don't even see my post from yesterday showing- where I spoke of the marriage of John Whittaker & Eliza/Elizabeth (Rose) Smith??)

Thank you for the two census listings. By 1891 Eliza's husband was gone and she was struggling to look after herself and her children. This is what led to her allowing Ada & Albert to go into the care of Dr. Barnardo's organization & we purchased his records from them.
The niece who visited Charles was Albert's (the son of Eliza) daughter Barbara, b. 1924. She was a Smith & married Arthur Stevens and they were both with the Salvation Army. They or she (not sure if he went too or not) went to England for something to do with the Salvation Army and while there went to visit Charles & family. So, I doubt his name & address would have been given but at least it would indicate that he was still living at that time.
Thanks so much!


36
Lancashire / Re: Charles William Smith, Manchester
« on: Thursday 28 July 16 14:54 BST (UK)  »
I wonder why we are seeing two very different #18's when I use the link you posted? Mine says:

Reply #18 on: Saturday 25 February 12 14:50 GMT (UK)

Hi Dawn,

Yes, I had come up with the same conclusion you did re Elizabeth Crisp. I gather after Mr. Smith died she married someone else before then marrying John Whittaker. The 1911 census shows them as having been married for 7 years so that certainly fits with the 1904 date. When she included the street address where she was born I thought I could zero in on her family but no such luck. And no, I have no marriage date to Mr. Smith and have different first names for him in the marriage records of two of his children - "James" in one of them and "Albert George" in another! Since (if we go by 1911 census info) Elizabeth was born about 1862 and she had children by 1884 and possibly before, I would guess she married somewhere between 1880 & 1883. Family stories say Mr. Smith was a policeman and his son's marriage record says he was a "police sergeant".
Thank you for your interest!

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