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Messages - oldcrone

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10
The Common Room / Re: Attitudes to a suicide in the 1920s
« on: Monday 19 April 10 17:08 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for all the advice, and the extra info from Stan re: the issue of non compos mentis.

I'm still not sure whether to tell Mum - she has been very interested in her family history (she actually sparked me off a few years ago), but she's the sort of person who isn't too keen on hearing anything 'negative'.

I'll leave it for now, I think; I'll just tell everyone else in the family!

Clara  ;)

11
The Common Room / Re: Attitudes to a suicide in the 1920s
« on: Saturday 17 April 10 18:03 BST (UK)  »
One thing I really don't know what to do: do I tell my mum?  My grandfather, son of the cut-throat, has always been persona-non-grata in our family as he deserted my grandmother when my mum and her brother were quite young: he ended up in Australia and married bigamously.  There are no photos/information about him that have been handed down and consequently, it's been really difficult to research this branch of the family.

My mum (aged 78), however, has always had this thing about her 'Welsh' background (ie the Davies family), and seems to have built some sort of celtic fantasy about it.  I've spoken to my 81-year-old uncle about this suicide to find out whether he had any knowledge about it, and he hasn't: this is obviously an occurence that has been keep quiet well before my grandfather met my grandmother.

But, do I tell my mum?  I've spoken to my stepfather, but have only got a non-commital reply.  Should I trash my mum's Welsh fantasies?!

Clara  ???

12
The Common Room / Re: Attitudes to a suicide in the 1920s
« on: Saturday 17 April 10 17:47 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for all these thoughts/information/personal experiences, etc to my original post.  For some reason, my hotmail account isn't registering these replies!

Meles: yes, my g-grandfather's suicide is registered as having happened when he was 'of unsound mind'.  I can imagine, certainly in the 20s when my forebear committed suicide, that widespread understanding of mental health issues was pretty poor.  My own take is that the Victorian value of 'the stiff upper lip' was still holding sway, and depression (as a psycho/social phenomenon) was something that was frowned upon and given short shrift.

I received a copy of the 1922 newspaper report yesterday and, although the circumstances of my g-grandfather's death are pretty gruesome, there's not that much to really explain why he did it.  But looking at the suicide all these years after the event, there are a few facts to take into account: my g-grandfather survived WW1.  I haven't been able to find his service records but his wife states (with irony, I think) that he survived WW1 'with no injury'.  I wonder though, what psychological affect the war might have had on him.  There is some talk of him being depressed about business worries (he is recorded as being a 'dining rooms proprietor' - I guess this means he ran a cafe).  Whatever, he got up on a Monday morning, went into the coalshed and cut his throat, apparently almost severing his head.  According to his wife, there didn't seem to have been any warning.

(I have more to say, but Rootschat is playing up!  It's really difficult to write my post as the message section keeps flicking up and down.  I'll try again later!)

Clara X


13
The Common Room / Re: Attitudes to a suicide in the 1920s
« on: Thursday 15 April 10 20:22 BST (UK)  »
Thank you, for all your thoughts/opinions: I appreciate it.

And thanks Meles: I'm waiting for the newspaper report about my g-grandfather.  I only have my uncle and my mother alive, and neither of them have any recollection of the death of their grandfather (he died before they were born, in fact, before my grandfather married my grandmother, so it was easy to keep the suicide secret).   However, I can't imagine what could drive someone to cut their own throat - such a desperate and bloody act.

Clara

14
The Common Room / Re: Attitudes to a suicide in the 1920s
« on: Thursday 15 April 10 18:32 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks, Carol  :)

It might mean that there's a headstone somewhere.  I got the impression that suicides were buried out of sight/mind at this time.

Clara

15
The Common Room / Attitudes to a suicide in the 1920s
« on: Thursday 15 April 10 17:59 BST (UK)  »
I've just found out that my great-grandfather committed suicide in 1922, fairly gruesomely.

I know that, at this time, suicide was considered a crime, but I haven't been able to ascertain (via a quick google search) whether he would have been buried in unconsecrated ground; or would he have been cremated?  Is it likely in either case that there's a headstone?

The other thing I'm wondering is the effect on his wife and children; how would they have been regarded/treated in view of the suicide?

Clara

16
Armed Forces / Re: Boer war service: can anyone explain this?
« on: Thursday 01 April 10 08:38 BST (UK)  »
Thanks alot, Ken, for checking the images, and confirming what I'd thought re: my g-father's Boer War service.  Incidentally, my grandfather did also go by the name of Shaw (which eventually became his official surname).

As for the ribbons, they are definitely the KSA/QSA - they are mounted together on a pin.  On his obituary, it says that he fought in the Boer War, so this must have been what he told his children.

A mystery!


17
Armed Forces / Re: Boer war service: can anyone explain this?
« on: Wednesday 31 March 10 18:25 BST (UK)  »
hi Rena

Thanks for replying, but I don't think there's a problem in that respect in my g-father's case.  I've actually got a hard copy of his army records from TNA a few years ago: Ken was just trying to understand my problem with my g-father's records and asked if he could have a look at them online at Ancestry.

best wishes

Clara  :)

18
Armed Forces / Re: Boer war service: can anyone explain this?
« on: Wednesday 31 March 10 18:04 BST (UK)  »
hi Ken

Don't mean to hassle, but I wondered if you had managed to access my g-father's service records?  If not, no problem - it was always a difficult query unless people could actually see the records I was referring to.

best wishes

Clara  :)


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