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Messages - panished

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1
Travelling People / Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
« on: Monday 04 October 21 06:46 BST (UK)  »
Hi Daisy,  (daisydew7)

Through dna testing I have several Young/Heron matches, two of them come down through Frampton, one through Nathan and the other through Joseph who both are the sons of Frampton many of the Young's seam to have connection's themselves to Scotland plus the far lands to the East, these are distant Cousin matches to me that must predate them going to America, all the names you write of are in my matches tree that they put up for me to see, you have to match first though, see if you can find me on Ancestry my profile name is (michael Leahcim) we may match for I have male and females dna matches from America who are straight descended down from Frampton plus several more American Young's they are all connected to the Palmer's Robinsons Williamsons Lovell's and everyone you could think of, another of the Young's who I match to comes out of the Blackpool Young's, its hard to find everything out though for just as the many that let you see free bits well others put up nothing, they make you write to them evan though you dna match, so i will just have to rely on what i find, this is what you wrote below.

Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
  Friday 01 October 21
 
“Hello, I’ve known my whole life that I had Romany, however I never heard my dad or my granny use that term…it was always Gypsy. My dad and granny spoke their Rom language fluently. Some people find Gypsy derogatory but it was used in my family. My granny was 100% Rom. Her dad was Joseph Young son of Frampton Young( Heron). Her mother was Delilah Boss daughter of Sampson Boss who was son of the infamous Riley Boss.

Myself, my brother, my niece and my cousin all are matching DNA on Ancestry to lots and lots of cousins that we can trace and prove are all Romany  full or otherwise.  With that said I am only a 1/4 ROM. My Dad 1/2 and my granny full. Look at your DNA match and check who their matching. I guess if you are researching and not sure if you have Rom or not it could be more challenging for sure.

  Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Young's
  Wednesday 15 May 19
 
 “michael
Riley Boss and his wife Lucy are my 3rd great grandparents but I am also related to the Hearn, Heron/ Young Family.....this is interesting. Eric Trudgill has been very helpful too as well as Anne. I find your posts here informative. Most my research has been found on my family after arriving in the USA. My great great grandfather Frampton Young came to America from England in 1855. My gg grandfather Samson Boss ( Son Of Riley and Lucy Boss) came to America as well as his Mother in the 1860’s . Thank you for posting this information.
Here is a marriage certificate of My gg grandfather Frampton’s youngest son Nathan and Pinkney, married in the USA”.


Daisy, if you go on this link below it shows you information about everything, you have to keep clicking on (next) or (back) at the bottom of each page to see more pages, I use these pedigrees shown on this web site to trace back the Family's that I dna match to, I know things may have been wrote wrong and outdated but most will be about right, I have lots of Boswell matches well several but just one straight down the line Boss but lots have the Bosses in them anyway like the ones I match to from Framptons lot, I will find and put up here more information about the Heron Young's I hope I have been of help to you, I have no idear how I connect to the Heron Young's Hearnes Herrings, not a clue but in this day I share dna with the descendant's of these Family's, in life you can only carry that which you hold, plus Ancestry are updating their Ethnicity in peoples profiles, i have noticed several Gipsy Family's now have connections to the Bengal region,this placers their travels further East, i wonder what will the science make of this, the Heron Young's offten show the Eastern lands in their Ethnicity, you just have to look at their Family history in what i have read through my dna clusters and you know that they are one of the Old lot, some names i have found to are from a very old time yet i have seldom heard their name mentioned, i do not think though that such things would be of trouble to them, in my mind Daisy you was right about the word Gipsy, its a proud word, when i came on the internet i met many people and listened into many conversations, then i listened how they downgraded the word Gipsy for the proper word was Roma, now i wondered what were people talking about, sure Romany is a good name but how can you be a Romany without being a Romany Gipsy, no one can be a Gipsy or descend from them unless you are a Romany Gipsy, it would be like walking around with no legs, that's the way of the lands round these British isles in my mind and that's the way of it, well that's just what i think, i am just a scrag end but the whole bit of scrag once came of some good stuff, i,ll wear my Gold Coins till i die.

http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree.html
http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree2.html
http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree3.html

2
Travelling People / Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« on: Sunday 03 October 21 19:03 BST (UK)  »
 Hi Daisy,  (daisydew7)

 i moved my post to the Heron Young page were i meant it to go

3
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Tuesday 04 May 21 19:17 BST (UK)  »
I would prefear to write to them on your behalf, and state that you would like to learn of such things that you have sort, if this is not right by you tell why and then i will private message you the details you ask, i would like to show respect to my Cousin dna matches, i offten make mistakes but try to evolve and move on, i will write to Deniece and ask her to come on Rootschat and answer your questions, who knows the final answers may not be of your liking and still your thoughts look ever more to the unknown, and also try not to give out the full details of people living 
regards michael 

4
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Monday 03 May 21 17:52 BST (UK)  »
you are right about Big Jack, i try not to put the modern to days information up, for i think its bad manners to do that when you start to understand the ways of the Rootschat peoples ideals, and Big Jack may not want his name put all over the internet that's why i try and learn new skills in writing, Denieces last name as in her profile well its on Ancestry as you did ask before, the person who mangers her profile has also well known photo's of Gipsy relatives , i do not match to him i match to Denieces tree in dna yet her manager as the same name as Her, Lesley from the North is also on ancestry i have the My Heritage also and i did find a sort of second Cousin named Knight who dna matcher's to me, the Knights are a Gipsy name from the past, My Heritage is more than likely a very good web site but i like Ancestry the best for it suits my needs.

on Denieces managers profile you may see Amy Lee and Earis Smith and Mena Lee plus Oliver Lee Leonard Lee and Julia Boswell Betsy Cooper and Sam Smith and more photos that i have never seen, i am nothing of none of the Peoples i talk of i just have links myself from peoples of the past who are now gone. 

5
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Monday 03 May 21 16:47 BST (UK)  »
Janey i few posts back asked me that, i still do not know what ged match is, i guess its to find people in a near tree who through dna are relatives, you can just freely ask me anything if you wish, do you seak any information, i have not done a gedmatch, who knows maybe one day i will.

michael 

6
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Monday 03 May 21 08:50 BST (UK)  »
 
I just wanted to show you this dna match to me that contains a Cooper, she herself comes out of the Lowthers plus i share four dna matches with this match named Lesley, they are two Boswell males with the same Christain name but i can see they are different people, plus Big Jack from America who as the champions of ancestry, and finally a Female whose Granparents are Smiths and Lees on one side, her Parents she does not give any name to, there is much to learn from the information contained in the Cousin sequence, it may be many years in the future before such truth is known but we can only learn of such things in our own life times and think of these things, you would not of ever known of the Lowthers, they connect to the Wilshers- Wiltshires who I connect to, I am only a bit of a scrag end as regards Gipsy ancestry yet I to am free to learn as everyone who learns deems themselves fit, the Lowthers are in storeys with the Wilshers over the Yorkshire way and evan my own place of Sneinton, they get up to all sorts of goings on,  I understand all these goings, and love to read of the past peoples life's at all times I respect everyone of the long dead.


Lesley 
Manchester, Lancashire, England
 
Lesley  Mother was Brenda  1936–1982  r.i.p Manchester, Lancashire, Brenda's Mother was Donah Priscilla Lowther 1906–1987 Bury, Lancashire, Donas Mother was Lavina Lovell 1881–1910  Bury Lancaster, Donna's Father was George Lowther 1881–1958 Halifax, Yorkshire, Lavina's Father was George Lovell 1833– Elmstone Hardwicke, Gloucestershire, Lavina's Mother was Genti (Jenty) Cooper 1848– Wolverhampton, Staffordshire.

All this above in Lesley's open Tree that just shows you a few generations to help you see if there is a connection, then you may write to your dna match and ask to learn more, if they like you, you then are allowed to join their group.

Also on the world map that Lesley shows freely are more names in her tree but not the branch.

Major Lovell
1779–1853
Weldon, Northamptonshire

Isabella Smith
1816–1890
Solihull, Warwickshire

George Lovell
1810–1879
Longborough, Gloucestershire 


So you see how Gipsy's are connected through Family's and location, I think through dna you may follow and learn about Family's through the clusters that are plain to see if you look into the thousands of dna Cousin matches that everyone holds, also now there may be certain Family's that Criss cross Britain more than others and my own dna shows also how certain Family's Criss crossed evan oceans, it has been a great learning to learn of such things, the Coopers I do not know anything about but I have come to learn you will find them in many trees that span the globe, i have several direct down the line born and bred Coopers who dna match to me, how i come to share dna with Coopers born in this day saying we share a far off common ancestor i do not know, there is a link in some form what it meens in truth only the times of the future may reveal, now when I engage with people on the internet I just talk to words, through this meetings of words I learn of many words, by being a person who aligns to words may sound selfish yet it is the truth for through this meeting it allows me to send forth my own words of my teachings from the heart of learning, which is my soul time goal in the art of such learning, people try and project words but the words reveal their truth that projectiles are but sent words having their own meanings through letters that fall and form, i do not see people but feel into their words this reveals that which can not be thrown, I do thank everyone though, to take the time to engage in whatever agenda allows much breath to be breathed in the spoken word, all words may be read, all words may be spoken, some people hide away their words in the dark cell prisoned in thought, how would you define the word selfish then, such people believe they are the jailer of words and  grasp hard the key in such tight nit rope hands, but why do they not see they themselves are looking out from the inner cell as they believe and think that they stare at you confined in the prison deep in truth it is them surrounded by iron bars forged in great darkness by the metal smith whose blinded hammer as sounded our world since man began from words forged in light that truth alights yet in hidden minds why themselves would they take such things to the grave deep for how great the cell thoughts of jailers yet no words weeps for them but sing loud the song of freedom as the bird whistles above the tomb for the  flower risers in everyday yet the flower seeks water as do words seek speech



7
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 02 May 21 18:06 BST (UK)  »
    on Denieces profile that she lets me see she states this


Direct ancestors with the surname Baillie
From DENIECE  ….. tree:
 
Agnes Baillie
1803–1879

Captain William Baillie
1661–1724

John Baillie
1730–1790

John Baillie
1769–

Mathew Baillie
1694–

Matthew Baillie
1710–1816

Direct ancestors with the surname Cooper
From DENIECE ….. tree:
 
 Cooper

Cinnamentia Sinamentey Limmenta (Senna) Cinderella Cooper
1865–1943

Edward Wendon Cooper
1804–1886

George Cooper
1815–1890

Mary Cooper
1847–

Matthias Cooper
1750–

Spicer (Uriah) Cooper
1815–1882

William Cooper
1791–1837

So you see the coopers and the Baillies are Denieces direct ancestors, there are more Gipsys than the Coopers I just put them on to show you the names, they may match to the Coopers you know,  I will look in my dna Cooper matches to see if I can find a link to the Coopers in your tree

michael

8
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Saturday 01 May 21 22:04 BST (UK)  »
 
  Hi

  I found  William Baillie who died in 1724 on the profile page of my dna match who as the Gipsy ancestry from the South, William Baillie known as the Captain was stated as being from Scotland so there now is the connection you was looking for, this below is the writings in a book that contains many reference's to the Baillies and how the name is spelt several ways, just read the whole book or just go to the back and in the index it shows you the page numbers that you can just read that refers to the Baillies, so use this if you do not like the thought of reading the whole book.


Scottish Gypsies under the Stewarts
by
 
MacRitchie, David, 1851-1925

 Page 111-112
 The acknowledged leader of the Baillie tribe in the latter part of the seventeenth century, and until his death in 1724, was the celebrated " Captain William Baillie."

https://archive.org/details/scottishgypsies00macrgoog/page/n122/mode/2up

My dna match   Deniece  as a Grandmother  named lemataney Matthews Mitcham, Surrey, England
1910–1996 r.i.p who's Mother was Lemataney Smith Mitcham, Surrey, England
 1887–1969 who's Mother was Lemataney Gardner Carshalton, Surrey, England
 1864–1948 and if you go down the Mathews line they wed to Cinnamentia Sinamentey Limmenta (Senna) Cinderella Cooper Epsom, Surrey, England
1865–1943

Also  Deniece writes under the title Family tree these names below on the world map of her ancestors,


Agnes Baillie
1803–1879
Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland


John Baillie
1769–
Borthwick, Midlothian, , Scotland


Captain William Baillie
1661–1724
Hardingtoun Robertoun, Clackmannan, Scotland

 
John Baillie
1730–1790
Canonbie, Dumfriesshire, Scotland


Mathew Baillie
1694–
Midlothian, Scotland


Matthew Baillie
1710–1816
Midlothian, Scotland


I only can see the first few lines of the Family tree above so do not know how the Baillies connect, Deniece states through her writings that they are all in her Family tree, how this comes to be i do not know, so Gipsy's from Scotland and Gipsy's from England could be in some way in the one Family tree, there is much more information in Deniece profile, I have just kept this short to focus on what you were looking for, Surrey is near to Kent and I am sure many of the other names on this tree will connect to all the Gipsy Family's of the South, just to had I share two dna matches with the Lady named Deniece, one looks to be a Bailey Wharton from America if I am reading things right, they then go on through there own names to rematch to me a great many of the well known Gipsy names that I have spoke of before including another male Bailey that i match to, again from America, I hope I have read things right and I have tried here to put things down in a right true manner, it does look to me that these Baillies from Scotland are in the same Family tree  that contain many of the English Gipsy names above, this is what I am reading through a stated dna match to me, i have tried to transcribe everything in a true manner, I hope this information may be of help to you, i do not know if the Baillies from the book are the same as the Baillie's in the Family tree of my dna match above but it looks hopfull through the name of the "Captain William Baillie" and the year of his death 1724, the Family tree and the book share this information its up to you to read into such things and decide for yourself.

michael   

9
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Friday 30 April 21 06:12 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Michael,

Have again in fact written to Mr Constance - 'Englishman' - he surely knows more about the Bailey family than I do.

I do know that Romanies were transported to Scandinavia by the Tudors, but they thrived & adapted; and married into the local nomadic people - the Saami. I have a dna match to a Saami through his cousin.

The Bailey name is also amongst Scottish Travellers as Baillie, that is something I am also following up; I have 9% Scottish ancestry. Am pretty sure the Romany Young's were originally from Scotland as well. Baillie Travellers have links to Ireland also.

Can you see people's trees on the Ancestry site please?

Many kind thanks :)

Hi

I just found a dna match who links the South Gipsy's with the baillies of Scotland i just spelt the name how you said baillie instead of Bailey and a person with Gipsy Ancestry from the south also as the baillies of Scotland in their tree from the 1600s, i do not see no ones trees only some of my matches let you see a few generations in their profile then i get around this by looking on the world map under their name for offten some of them put the names of their Ancestors on the map with locations of origin like Scotland, so then i use this to see the bigger picture, this way though you do not know which line the person in the map is from, like the Baillies above, my match as Gipsy's on one line as in side as in either Mother or Father, but the baillies go back to the 1600s so i can not see which side they are from because my match only shows back to the 1800s, you must write to them to join their group if they let you, so i have to look on their map of Relatives to find a few more free bits, some people tell you nothing not nothing, only that you match, the Young's from Sotland are two Young's i was told, you have the Tinker Young's and the Black Young's or Dark Young's, the Dark Young's are the Herons and the Tinker Young's are the old Tinkler Family's, i do not know if this is totally correct i was just listening to others talk and reading things over the yeares, but i do think their are two Young Family's from the North but do not take my word for such things for i do not know of the real talk.


michael

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