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Messages - panished

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28
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 14 March 21 21:12 GMT (UK)  »
So now in 1941 in April of that year a George Smith of Keswick-street, Sneinton attacks Rebecca in this record I found below,
 
 
Thursday 10 April 1941
  Nottingham Evening Post
    Nottinghamshire
 
Nottm. Assault Charge George Smith, of Keswick-street, Sneinton, appeared at the Nottingham Summons Court to-day, and pleaded not guilty to assaulting Rebecca Holmes, of Clarence-street, on March 31st ...  Rebecca Holmes said Smith entered her house, kicked her on the leg, and gave her a black eye. Smith was bound over to be of good behaviour for a year in the sum of £5, and ordered to pay 4s. costs


Then I read this on-line but can not say if the date is right but I put in dates right up until 1950 and no Rebecca is known, some of my relatives I read of write of a different date and I think why, if you Kazi can help me I would ask of you to see if you know if this date below is true
 
 burial register
location WilfordHill Cemetery Nottingham
 
Rebecca Holmes
Buried on:
29 April 1942
recorded in:  Nottinghamshire
date of death 
24 April 1942


My own Mother told me how she watched her Mother die after being attacked, this death took many months, She told me how the times were hard times to witness the dieing of her own Mother for after the beating she took for she told how she was kicked bad while on the ground in the  mid section and that the beating brourt on a bad illness that destroyed her insides she would often speak to my Mother telling her of her coming death these are here actual words as told to me by my Mother as my Mother as a young girl comforted her own Mother in her dieing illness
 
 
“ look into the fire Becca, look into the fire……….tell me Becca what do you see”
    I see flames mam, I see flames, dancing flames, I see flames mam, dancing flames,
“ then look into the flames Becca, look into the flames, look deep into the flames, now what do you see”
I see you mam, I see you, in a coffin  mam, I see you,
“ don't be afraid Becca, don't be afraid, I will always be there"


 

29
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 14 March 21 21:10 GMT (UK)  »
This below is what Sky who started this thread wrote a while back, Maria and Rebecca are in family two, Rebecca my Grandmother was born in some field land Sheffield way my Gt Grandmother Maria (Mariah) told my Mother she came from Scotland Musselbourer way, in records it is stated Hull as the place of her birth but I believe what my Mother was told by her own Grandmother that then was told to me so Scotland way it is evan thoe they must have been around Hull maybe for some reason.

Quoted from skys post
 
“ It's interesting to see, into at least the 1930s-1940s many of Joseph Wilshaw and Maria Wilshaw nee Knight branch of the tree, keep living or hanging around as a strong family unit, while still travelling the midlands.”

1901 Censuses

Civil parish-Pleasley
Ecclesiastical parish-Shirebrook Holy Trinity
Town-Shirebrook
County/Island-Derbyshire
Country-England
Registration district-Mansfield

Family one- Travelling vans
Name-Joseph Wilt Shaw, Age-56
Name-Maria K Wilt Shaw nee Knight, Age-57
Name-Emma Wilt Shaw, Age-18
Name-Henry Wilt Shaw, Age-16

Family two-Travelling vans
Name-William Wilt Shaw, Age-21
Name-Maria R Wilt Shaw nee Hartley, Age-20
Name-Rebecca Wilt Shaw, Age-4          my Grandmother
Name-William Wilt Shaw, Age-2

Family three-Travelling vans
Name-Thomas Wilt Shaw, Age-37
Name-Margaret Wilt Shaw nee Wray, Age-20
Name-Mathilda Wilt Shaw, Age-11
Name-Harriett Wilt Shaw, Age-10
Name-Thomas Wilt Shaw, Age-7
NameMargaret Wilt Shaw, Age-5
Name-Julia Wilt Shaw, Age-2
Name-Emma Willt Shaw, Age-2


At the same time, two more of Joseph Wilshaw and Maria Wilshaw nee Knight's kids are camping in another area together at 11 Smith's Field in Caravans.

Kazi this Smith's Field is where all of the Smiths and Wilsher familys would stay on, it’s the Kings Meadow Hawthorne street Cremorne area that is rich with the stories that we have already found and wrote about, far more is unknown than known remember about the Gipsy colony around peg terrace I think we found that way

Ecclesiastical parish-St George
County/Island-Nottinghamshire
Country-England
Registration district-Nottingham
Sub-registration district-Nottingham South West


Name-Joseph Wilshire, Age-37
Name-Elizabeth Wilshire nee Woodward, Age-38
Name-Joseph Wilshire, Age-18
Name-Henry Wilshire, Age-16
Name-Mary Wilshire, Age-7
Name-Sarah Wilshire, Age-6/12

Name-Fred Wilshire, Age-30
Name-Annie Wilshire nee Taylor, Age-30
Name-Angerimia Wilshire, Age-10
Name-Fred Wilshire, Age-7 ( Fred Wilsher who marries Angereena Boyling)



Joseph Wiltshire/Wilshaw born 1844 Pontefract, Yorkshire West Riding in a camp, Stapleton.  Is the son to William Wilshaw 1811 and Lydia Jones 1800... Emma Graham nee kinght borrn abt 1825 is Joseph Wiltshire/Wilshaw 1844 monther in-law. Joseph Wilsher wife being Maria Knight Birth 1847.

Joesph Wiltshire/Wilshaw 1844 and Maria Kinght 1847 have at least 8 Kids, one of their Children is called Joseph Wilsher born 1865 Attercliffe, County of York... Who married Elizabeth Woodward so this is how the records go thurther back

People not in houses*(People sleeping in Tents)
1861*Pontefract, Yorkshire
William Willshaw  50  abt 1811  Longbillington, Nottinghamshire, Head  Tinner & Brazier       
Lidia Willshaw   49  abt 1812    Codbrough, Nottinghamshire,  Wife     
Joseph Willshaw  15  abt 1846    Darrington, Yorkshire   Son
Lidia Willshaw   13   abt 1848    Lincoln, Lincolnshire    Daughter   
Walter Nelson *   32 abt 1829    Scotland    Son-in-Law       
Lotis Nelson    32  abt 1829    Stowe, Lincolnshire,    Daughter   
Henry Nelson   8  abt 1853    Wakefield, Yorkshire,     Grandson     
George Nelson   7  abt 1854    Wakefield, Yorkshire,    Grandson   
Harriet Nelson   5  abt 1856    Carlton, Yorkshire,   Granddaughter     
Mary Nelson   3  abt 1858    Pontefract, Yorkshire,    Granddaughter     
//
William Blewitt  52  abt 1809 widow   Stamford, Lincolnshire,    Head    tinner & Brazier
Sarah Blewitt   24 abt 1837 widow   London, Middlesex,   Daughter-in-Law     
Valuza Blewitt  5   abt 1856    York, Yorkshire, England    Granddaughter     
Enis Blewitt  1  abt 1860    Hull, Yorkshire, England           
//
John Lee  70   abt 1797    Woodbridge, Suffolk,   Head   
Charlott Lee  70  abt 1791    Woodbridge, Suffolk,     Wife   
Tenna Lee  27   abt 1834    Livingston, Norfolk, Daughter   
Mary Boss   70 abt 1791    Farnham, Suffolk,  Widow     
John Phillips 29   abt 1832    Thorne, Yorkshire Tinner & Brazier



 
 

So this is William,
 
William Wiltshire 
Bp 19 July 1805, Long Bennington, Lincolnshire, son of Edward and Letitia Wiltshire, a Traveller. Edward Wilsher 1760 married a Letitia Smith 1760. Then their Son William 1811 married Lydia Jones 1812.

Then  everyone above gets mixed through many Gipsy names right the way up until I,m the last man standing at the end of a long line, theres no one left but me but then I found my dna cousins and now I have over 400 as of now, but I will be the last of this line, of this I have no doubt.   

30
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 14 March 21 21:09 GMT (UK)  »
Yorkshire August 1875

SAVAGE ASSAULT BY GIPSIES. four men, named William Wilsher the Elder (60), William Wilsher the yornger (24), Edward Wilsher (21), and James Winter (19), all gipsies, rendered to their bail _ upon a charge of having unlawfully and maliciously inflicted grievous bodily harm upon Mr Michael Pearse, a publican, landlord of the White Swan, Brayton. Mr Vernon Blackbain prosecuted, Mr Wheelhouse and Mr Tindal appearing for the defence. In opening the case, Mr Blackburn stated that, though there were four separate indictments against the men, it was not an assault with _ intent to commit a felony and although they were gipsies they were not thieves, therefore It must be taken out of the ordinary category. It appeared there had been a dispute about a wager, in which they used their riding whips. They had paid £lOO into court, and now appeared to receive judgment. So far as the prosecution was concerned did not at the time know so much about the men as he did now, and he had no desire to prosecute, therefore he (Mr Blackburn) would be glad if the Chairman could see his way clear to bind them over their own recognisances come for judgment whenever they might be called upon.—The Chairman read the prosecutor’s depositions, from which it appeared that a most savage assault had been committed. The men were differing in the public-house, and upon the prosecutor remonstrating with them William Wilsher the elder twisted the lash of his whip round his hand and struck him on the lip with the butt end, knocking one of his teeth out. Both he and the elder son belaboured him with their whips, the latter knocking him down by giving him a blow on the cheek. The others then joined in kicking and striking him in a most brutal manner. The prosecutor had been under a doctor’s care ever since, and was still suffering great pain.—The Chairman, having read this, said it was not a case for treatment as a common assault. The men could have their £lOO back, but the sentence the Court would be that they should each be imprisoned for three months with hard labour.


So this is where the story continues Kazi,  take note of Clarence-street, Alfred-street South. As all of Alfred-street contains vast amounts of unknown truths

Wednesday 27 January 1937
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire
 
 
The offenders were Maria Wiltshire, 58, housewife, of Clarence-street, and Rebecca Holmes, 38, pedlar, of Alfred-street South. They pleaded guilty, the Mother explained that she had had some friends over from Sheffield and took a drop too much. the Daughter, who wore a bunch of violets in her fur coat remembered the constable coming up to them. We had had a lot of drink and I am very sorry it has happened, she added. It was their first offence. The Chairman (Mr. W. Wesson) : The magistrates are going to be very lenient. You will be discharged

31
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 14 March 21 21:08 GMT (UK)  »
Now Kazi see how they have been in Sneinton from the 1870s, the story will continue when I write everything up in the future for there will be more indepth information that I hope you will also be of help with, with the things that you know and find, I may get mixed up with dates and names sometimes so just put me right if I get anything wrong and continue to update the story when knew records appear, so this below is Maria my Gt Grandmother along with my Grandmother Rebecca as you see Gipsy people would come down from Sheffield as that is a place of manys the years of happenings along with and in many places in Yorkshire

Yorkshire 1850

Murderous Affray in Westgate. — Three gipsies, named Wm.Wilshaw, sen., Wm. Wilshaw, jun., and John Winter, were charged with an assault and riot, in Westgate, on Monday evening. It appeared from the evidence on Monday evening, they were at the  travellers  rest, in Westgate, when the prisoners and several other gipsies came into the room. They had been sat there a considerable time apart from the rest of the com- pany, when the elder Wilshaw jumped up and declared he had had his pocket picked by some of the complainants' party. This appeared to have been a preconcerted scheme, for im- mediately the charge was made, one of the gipsies ran and secured the house doors, and put the keys into his pocket, others armed themselves with pokers, tong's,   and declared they would have the money from some of those who had been sitting with them. Favell and the others protested that the old man could not have been robbed by them, if he had been robbed at all, as none of them had been near him. The gipsies commenced an attack with their formidable weapons, which some few of the others resisted. The greater part of them, however, endeavoured to escape from the house, and finding all egress from the doors impossible, ran upstairs, pur- sued by the gipsies, and escaped only by jumping from the windows into the street A most desperate fight ensued be- tween those who were left and the gipsies, but at length the former were glad to make their escape by the same means as their companions, several of them with their heads most  seriously cut and bleeding The gipsies were thus left in entire possession ot the  house. the hole neighbourhood was in a tumult, and several  of the local police arrived the gipsies refused to open the door, and they were compelled to effect an entrance by the window. They succeeded in appre- hending the three prisoners, but the remainder of the party effected their escape. The youngest of the prisoners was most severely wounded on the head, and his leg had been very much bitten by a dog. — The Magistrates convicted the two Wilshaws in the penalty of 40s. each, and costs, or two months' imprisonment. The fines were paid. The prisoner Winter, who is upwards of 70 years of age, was discharged on paying costs, it appearing that he had not taken any part in the affray.

Yorkshire July 1875   

Serious Assault by a Gang of Gipsies.— On Monday, Wm. Wilsher, sen., Wm. Wilsher, jun., Ed- ward Wilsher, and James Winter, four gipsies, were charged with a violent assault on James Pears, landlord of the White Swan Inn at Brayton. Mr. Bantoft appeared for the prosecution, and Mr. Wainwright for the defendants. The latter offered to compensate complainant for his injuries, and to pay the costs, but the Bench objected The complainant said on the 28th ult. the men with others   came into his house, and the eldest had a glass of ale. They commenced to quarrel, and he told them to go out. Wm. Wilsher, sen., struck him on the lip with the butt end of a whip, cutting it open and knocking his teeth out Wm. Wilsher, jun., and Edward Wilsher struck him on the head and face with the butt ends of their whips. They kicked him till he became insensible, and he had since been under medical treatment. The men were shod with wooden clogs, finished with iron.— George Collins, of Burn, said he was returning from the fair at Selby and went into the White Swan for a glass of beer, when he saw the landlord on the floor, and the prisoners kicking him. Witness went towards the group, whereupon they used the butt ends, of their whips about his head. He fought his way through them, and picked up the landlord. While he was doing this, the party struck and kicked him repeatedly as well as Pears, who was bleeding and insensible.— Johuso Simpson! said he was in the house, and said " What a shame !" Immediately one of the men (though not one of the accused) kicked him in the face, cut his lip open, and knocked a tooth out— Dr. Gray, of Selby, said he had attended the prosecutor and described the injuries he had received.— The Bench committed the men for trial at the sessions.

                                                 

32
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 14 March 21 21:06 GMT (UK)  »
Helo Kazi

I hope you are well and life treating you fine, I have found many records over the past several years as you know regarding the peoples we talk about I must put everything down soon in a datetime format that may be expanded on I see the story keeps evolving and the times of these people are being updated as more information comes to light, this below is another record about  George Gipsy Smiths son Christopher Smith


Tuesday 24 February 1948
  Nottingham Evening Post
    Nottinghamshire
 

Hostel Scene

Because he could not get a bed in the Salvation Army hostel in Aberdeen street, Nottingham. Christopher Smith, of 4, Keswick-street, broke the woodwork and the door and burst the lock, it was stated at the Nottingham Guildhall, to-day. He was fined £3 and £1 costs for damaging the door. John Robert Foster night porter, and Lieut. Nicholls, Salvation Army officer, both said defendant was worse for drink and used obscene language when told there was not a bed available
 
Aberdeen street is only a stones throw from Keswick street, some of the stories from long ago may seam at times strange to you, they may not either but I would like you to know that this is just the way of it, also Keswick street is right next to all the named places I talk about here in these posts, I was born just down from Keswick street, everything is  close as are all the peoples, they would know each other, I will show you some maps another time and explain the area in more detail so that you would be able to understand more in a truer context

Kazi over the times of our writings you have wrote these words below, the date of Georges death stated by yourselves as in 1941 was of interest to me be course it may have proved that George Gipsy Smiths was not the one who attacked Rebecca for if in 1941 George died in the months before Rebecca my grandmother was attacked then it could not possibly be old George Gipsy Smiths known to you as George Oxby Smith born in a tent, Staunton-on-the-Wolds, Notts on the 13 March 1868. He was Baptised 18 Mar 1868 Staunton-on-the-Wolds, Notts.  His father is given as John Smith, mother Maria - Gipsy's.

So I thought maybe Gipsy George Smith who along with my own Mother also named Rebecca  well both of them would say how we was cousins, now what does that mean,
Well they said it was through family ties, this I would hear with my own ears and saw such things stated with my own eyes from the Wilshers and the Smiths, for my own Mother came out of the Wiltshires Wilshaw Wilshers, it could still be anyone of the two George Smiths but you will see in the record soon the said George was living at Keswick street so if old old George Gipsy Smith had a son who was related to us then it was Old Gipsy George Smith who my Mother would often talk of in the fondest of words and the greatest of respect.

So if old old Gipsy George Smith did not die in 1941 then it may well be him who was the one who attacked my Mothers Mother, if it was another George from the same address then it may well have been the younger Old Gipsy George who must be the son of the first George the bull legend of Nottingham known to you as George Oxby Smith, but why would Rebecca have been attacked, this I am still trying to find out, I will write the rest up on the next page but first this below is what you first wrote to me before the updated words in your present knowledge of such matters.


“Hi again,
The George Smith in Keswick Street is old George Smith (bn 1865) living there in 1939 (he died in 1941).  I would love to know anything you have on his children.  Feel free to ask any questions and if I can I will answer them.” …….Kazi


“ GEORGE OXBY SMITH "Gypsy Smith" 1868-1941.
 He also used the alias Clayton.
George Oxby Smith was about in 1868 Stanton, Nr Bingham, Nottinghamshire, he was the son of John (Johnny) Smith bn 1833 Tur Langton, Leicestershire s/o Samuel Smith 1791-1864 and Reservoy (Reservoir) Smith 1796-1860, I think they were Uncle and Niece... George's mother was Maria Smith bn Scalford, Leicestershire, d/o Levi Smith bn 1810 and Sophia Smith born 1811-
George's Father Johnny also had another partner at the same time (I believe the "wives" were also sisters) both wives were his 1st cousins.
1871 - He is encamped with his father, his father’s 2 "wives" and all their children in Snenton, Notts.”….Kazi

33
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Monday 01 March 21 20:32 GMT (UK)  »
 Thank you Jane for inviting me to join you in your research on Ancestry, i am just looking at how i reply to you, i think it is where it says send, but i dont want to be talking to any one, i was thinking if i write to you it may go to everyone on Ancestry, i will send soon on the send page and see what happens, you have been good by me, i will never forget you, one day i will not write no more, thats just the way of it, but i promise i will never forget you and i will always be your pal

lots of love from me

michael

no need to write back now i will see if i can write to you x

 

34
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 28 February 21 19:41 GMT (UK)  »
Hey Jane i just got a mesage from you on Ancestry, how about that then, my first mesage, and it says we both are related to Thelma, but i already new that just imagine i got myself my first mesage, your name came up in lights, Janey Smith what a great name to be the first person to write to me 

i will write back soon take care Jane from your pal michael x

35
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 28 February 21 05:53 GMT (UK)  »
Just type ( michael Leahcim) that's my name on Ancestry Jane, i am only on the dna side of things i am not registered in where you can view all family trees my profile name is michael Leahcim i thought you knew, i told you how you was a distant Cousin to me and we have several shared dna matches, i see your profile picture of a  painted varda its a bright coloured picture painting, on my profile you will see my photo and that i come from Nottingham, all this time i have been writing to you i thought you already saw my profile and photo, and the Lady Ramona as a photo of herself holding two young children on her knee, i can not say on here her last name for i don't think you can give out full private details but there are three people i match to with the same last name as Ramona and they all have the Indian dna, two are in the Fourth to sixth cousin column Ramona is in the sixth to eight column, it may well be that this Ramona is a different Lady, type in my name Jane and then you will be able to see me and see who we share matches with on my shared matches with you there is the Holmes S.S. Managed by a buckland a Davies a Byrne a R.Y. a Riding a Gray a Boswell all from 1st to sixth cousin all these are full of Gipsy family's the Lady named as Riding is born a Lee from Wales, we match with more but you have to click onto the distant matches name first to find if you share connections with others, i have already wrote about the Davies and Byrne a few posts back and i match to Thelma that's another of your closer cousins, you and Thelma and this Ramona are distant cousins right at the end of Ancestry's knowledge, i hope you find my profile, write back and tell if you do, i also wrote all about  myself and dna a few pages back, well i was just also thinking that you said the Rammona with a double m as a open tree that is free to see well this Ramona that i match to as locked her tree and you first have to ask permission to talk to people like that, i do not really go around writing to folks for i think to myself if they wanted to be open minded they would not hide away but that is up to whoever to make that free choice for themselves, i have no written tree that's why no one can see mine for i haven't evan got one and i don't think i ever will

michael

36
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Saturday 27 February 21 21:05 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Jane  do you remember Ramona your relation from the Prices of Wales yet she as the European Gipsies in her Family, I will not speak of their names for you say you are now both living in Canada, i am sure Ramona wrote to me about ten years back, now I just found I am dna related to a Romona, the Ramona who is my long Cousin may not be the same Romona from Canada, isn't life strange how names come up, the Ramona who is my dna Cousin as much of that Indian dna that i thought the first Romona must have, would you ask Ramona to see if she connects to me through  Ancestry


michael

 

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