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Messages - panished

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46
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 02 May 21 18:06 BST (UK)  »
    on Denieces profile that she lets me see she states this


Direct ancestors with the surname Baillie
From DENIECE  ….. tree:
 
Agnes Baillie
1803–1879

Captain William Baillie
1661–1724

John Baillie
1730–1790

John Baillie
1769–

Mathew Baillie
1694–

Matthew Baillie
1710–1816

Direct ancestors with the surname Cooper
From DENIECE ….. tree:
 
 Cooper

Cinnamentia Sinamentey Limmenta (Senna) Cinderella Cooper
1865–1943

Edward Wendon Cooper
1804–1886

George Cooper
1815–1890

Mary Cooper
1847–

Matthias Cooper
1750–

Spicer (Uriah) Cooper
1815–1882

William Cooper
1791–1837

So you see the coopers and the Baillies are Denieces direct ancestors, there are more Gipsys than the Coopers I just put them on to show you the names, they may match to the Coopers you know,  I will look in my dna Cooper matches to see if I can find a link to the Coopers in your tree

michael

47
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Saturday 01 May 21 22:04 BST (UK)  »
 
  Hi

  I found  William Baillie who died in 1724 on the profile page of my dna match who as the Gipsy ancestry from the South, William Baillie known as the Captain was stated as being from Scotland so there now is the connection you was looking for, this below is the writings in a book that contains many reference's to the Baillies and how the name is spelt several ways, just read the whole book or just go to the back and in the index it shows you the page numbers that you can just read that refers to the Baillies, so use this if you do not like the thought of reading the whole book.


Scottish Gypsies under the Stewarts
by
 
MacRitchie, David, 1851-1925

 Page 111-112
 The acknowledged leader of the Baillie tribe in the latter part of the seventeenth century, and until his death in 1724, was the celebrated " Captain William Baillie."

https://archive.org/details/scottishgypsies00macrgoog/page/n122/mode/2up

My dna match   Deniece  as a Grandmother  named lemataney Matthews Mitcham, Surrey, England
1910–1996 r.i.p who's Mother was Lemataney Smith Mitcham, Surrey, England
 1887–1969 who's Mother was Lemataney Gardner Carshalton, Surrey, England
 1864–1948 and if you go down the Mathews line they wed to Cinnamentia Sinamentey Limmenta (Senna) Cinderella Cooper Epsom, Surrey, England
1865–1943

Also  Deniece writes under the title Family tree these names below on the world map of her ancestors,


Agnes Baillie
1803–1879
Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland


John Baillie
1769–
Borthwick, Midlothian, , Scotland


Captain William Baillie
1661–1724
Hardingtoun Robertoun, Clackmannan, Scotland

 
John Baillie
1730–1790
Canonbie, Dumfriesshire, Scotland


Mathew Baillie
1694–
Midlothian, Scotland


Matthew Baillie
1710–1816
Midlothian, Scotland


I only can see the first few lines of the Family tree above so do not know how the Baillies connect, Deniece states through her writings that they are all in her Family tree, how this comes to be i do not know, so Gipsy's from Scotland and Gipsy's from England could be in some way in the one Family tree, there is much more information in Deniece profile, I have just kept this short to focus on what you were looking for, Surrey is near to Kent and I am sure many of the other names on this tree will connect to all the Gipsy Family's of the South, just to had I share two dna matches with the Lady named Deniece, one looks to be a Bailey Wharton from America if I am reading things right, they then go on through there own names to rematch to me a great many of the well known Gipsy names that I have spoke of before including another male Bailey that i match to, again from America, I hope I have read things right and I have tried here to put things down in a right true manner, it does look to me that these Baillies from Scotland are in the same Family tree  that contain many of the English Gipsy names above, this is what I am reading through a stated dna match to me, i have tried to transcribe everything in a true manner, I hope this information may be of help to you, i do not know if the Baillies from the book are the same as the Baillie's in the Family tree of my dna match above but it looks hopfull through the name of the "Captain William Baillie" and the year of his death 1724, the Family tree and the book share this information its up to you to read into such things and decide for yourself.

michael   

48
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Friday 30 April 21 06:12 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Michael,

Have again in fact written to Mr Constance - 'Englishman' - he surely knows more about the Bailey family than I do.

I do know that Romanies were transported to Scandinavia by the Tudors, but they thrived & adapted; and married into the local nomadic people - the Saami. I have a dna match to a Saami through his cousin.

The Bailey name is also amongst Scottish Travellers as Baillie, that is something I am also following up; I have 9% Scottish ancestry. Am pretty sure the Romany Young's were originally from Scotland as well. Baillie Travellers have links to Ireland also.

Can you see people's trees on the Ancestry site please?

Many kind thanks :)

Hi

I just found a dna match who links the South Gipsy's with the baillies of Scotland i just spelt the name how you said baillie instead of Bailey and a person with Gipsy Ancestry from the south also as the baillies of Scotland in their tree from the 1600s, i do not see no ones trees only some of my matches let you see a few generations in their profile then i get around this by looking on the world map under their name for offten some of them put the names of their Ancestors on the map with locations of origin like Scotland, so then i use this to see the bigger picture, this way though you do not know which line the person in the map is from, like the Baillies above, my match as Gipsy's on one line as in side as in either Mother or Father, but the baillies go back to the 1600s so i can not see which side they are from because my match only shows back to the 1800s, you must write to them to join their group if they let you, so i have to look on their map of Relatives to find a few more free bits, some people tell you nothing not nothing, only that you match, the Young's from Sotland are two Young's i was told, you have the Tinker Young's and the Black Young's or Dark Young's, the Dark Young's are the Herons and the Tinker Young's are the old Tinkler Family's, i do not know if this is totally correct i was just listening to others talk and reading things over the yeares, but i do think their are two Young Family's from the North but do not take my word for such things for i do not know of the real talk.


michael

49
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Thursday 29 April 21 20:26 BST (UK)  »
Hi

  What about just asking the man who goes by the name the English man, he is dna matched to me and as the Baileys in his tree, you said you have spoken to him before, do you want me to write to him, i will do that for you if it would be of help, i am not knowledgeable at all on the peoples you write about, i am learning much though and taking everything in, well i am trying to, i have about four male Gardiners as dna matches or maybe five i forgot but they are one of those old Family's by the look of their Family history and just like the Scamps they hold the Indian dna between them, in my mind it is clear that those two Family's are from the old Romany Peoples who first landed long ago, how and where i do not know but through me looking at my own dna matches which go well into the hundreds, well again i can plainly see the Gardiners and Scamps possess old Romany Gipsy genes in this day, i just found another Scamp match last night, She does not give much away but a few photos that link her to the Gipsy's and the Indian dna and many many shared dna matches with lots of the Old Names, She comes out of the Loves and Scamps Family's from down that South way,
 i think Her Mother was Mary Scamp 1937–1997 Dartford, Kent r.i.p She is a Cousin match through shared dna with me in the 4th to sixth range, i do not know why though, or evan a maybe, not a clue of any of this information, its hard for me to help you for i do not know of any of these names yet i seem to have strong links from the old times with the descendants of the old Gipsy's from the South, the Lee Family i have strong old links to with born and bred Lees Male and Females to, from the South coast right through Wales to, why though, the Stanley's are a big match to but the Young's are many like the Lees, i wonder who are or who his the old Ancestor who gave me all these dna matches to the old Gipsy's in this day, you think you are looking for something and it is a struggle for you, well look at me, i don't evan have a clue about my own Ancestry regarding my dna Cousin matches, i understand about the names i know from up my way but the South and more America then the Hearnes from Wales and the greatest of them the mighty Herons from the Northern lands, you have got to admit all this is a mystery that will never be solved, never, did you ever hear of them Jewell's to i think i spelled the name right, there famous in the old writings i may have spelt that name wrong but i dna match to them to, and now last night to a Swedish Family with not a drop of my British way ancestry they have now matched to me, they all play the accordion from long years, well i thought i would look through their Family photos and there was an old Relation with is name printed so i looked up his name on the internet and His old Family was from the old Romany that went to Sweden there is just a flicker of the South Asian left in them that Ancestry gives through their tests the rest from those cold lands not a drop of those lands are in me but i share old dna with these accordion players, i will show you a link to the oldest of them maybe tomorrow, i will keep trying to see things for you, i do read your posts and try and find things but i can not write of what i have not found, but i will try.

michael

50
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Tuesday 27 April 21 21:36 BST (UK)  »
Hi
I think this will be a good find for you, once again Rose Kemp (Scamp) is in this tree, but we must start in this day, my match is a Male who states he is from the South and  Originally from Pembury Kent, on his profile he gives only the name the Englishman, well down his line you will see how the  Constance Family are from the Constant Family who wed into Emmett (Hilden) as in Susanna Emmett (Hilden) 1863 Ewell Kent – now Susan comes out of John Emmett 1837 and Charlotte Yelding Yelden 1844–1927  the Emmets go back to  Abraham Emmett 1821– Swingfield Kent James Emmett 1791– Ann Emmett 1796– The Yeldings Yeldon go back to ? Yelding, John Yelding 1814  St.Nicholas at Wade.Kent born Sarre.Kent Thomas Yelding

Also in this tree are the Lees stated as
Isaac Lee 1822–  Susannah Lee 1787–1866  Thomas Lee
1760–Chatham Kent
Unknown Lee  unknown Lee.

Now back in this tree is a  Martha Bailey 1779–1852 Rolvenden Kent
Philadelthea Bailey 1806–1870 Rolvenden Kent
and a William Bailey 1773–1850 these may be of innterst to you and i am sure you know them, but the Baileys are true living down the Kent way and i share old dna in this day with the Cousin match above known as the Englishman, it is right at the end of Ancestrys range but it is still alive in me in this day, there are more names in this tree, i hope you have learned evan a little or evan at that found such things innteresting, i will keep looking for things for you, from your last message it seems to that we both share Cousin matches in this day, how about that then, i will look for more.

michael


 


 

 

 




 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




51
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Monday 26 April 21 19:27 BST (UK)  »
Hi

You was right about the Hildens having different names like Yelding, I pressed the button where it says in matches tree, what that means is I have hundreds of matches through shared dna, they then have many names in their tree, so if you type in Hilden in to your shared matches, the stated matches show up, well I have four dna matches who then have Hildens in their tree, I do not have a single Hilden as a match but these four below are related to me through shared dna and they have the Hildens in their Family line, if you would like to know more if anything connects to you I would evan write to them for you.

So looking at the Hildens I found a distant Cousin Match who as a
Elvie Hilden 1880–1942 Hertfordshire who weds jasper lee1880–

 
The Lees go back to Back to Henry LaFayette Lee 1810–1845 Shelby Co, , Kentucky, USA


    My dna match is a Loveridge on both sides she is from Cambridge, Cambridgeshire I share 13 dna Cousin matches with this Female 
 
The Loveridges go back to a
Benjamin Loveridge
1765–1853 Tutholden, Oxfordshire,

Also there ia a Joseph Smith
1821–


 
 I have another Female  match  from the Isle of Sheppey, Kent,  I share 4  matches with her in the 4th – 6th Cousin range from reading her tree that she lets you see I think it is her Grandmother who is the Hilden who goes back to a 

Hoger/Hodges/George Hilden Lynsted, Kent

1880–1913
 
 
There is also a
John Hilden/Yelden/Yelding Sturry, Kent
1836–1897
 
And also
John Yelden/Yielding (Hilden)
1815–


The Stanley's go back to a
John STANLEY Bentley, Hampshire

1744–1817

 The Smiths go back to a John Smith
1819–1866
Brighton, Sussex

 
The Lees go back to a 
 
Thomas Lee
1760–
Chatham, Kent


 The Buckley's go back to a
 
 
Perrin Buckley
1757–
Essex


I have another match this time it’s a Straight down the line Male Gardiner
Not the ones I have wrote of before, but with this Gardiner we both share 39 matches all again from the old Gipsy Family's the Hilden connection is from

Jack Hilden Plumstead Kent
1906–1985

Who  weds

Brittania Eastwood Dartford Kent
1911–2008

The Boswells Scamps Dightons Lees and more are on in this tree.


I have another match who Ancestry state that they have a Hilden in their tree, but the strange thing is this Lady gives nothing away apart from this open message she left for all to see on her profile, are you able to help this Lady with anything you may know, she says she is from Kent and wants help but I don't evan know a single soul from Kent and never have known of the peoples she is looking for, she as the Indian dna that's about all she gives away, if you know anything tell me and I will write to her and tell her all about Rootschat and how you helped her, this is the message below she left for someone to find
 
Female match from Kent

Message

“I never met my maternal grandparents James & Rebecca Brockey and would like to know where my maternal great grandmother Jemmia and great grandfather George came from. I know all about my paternal line. I am now 75 years old and am trying to get complete tree done in order to pass to my 9 grandchildren.”

Also this Lady shares 51 stated dna Cousin matches with me it full of the lot of them lots of the American ones are their to evan the Lovell's join this cluster plus a Lady named Parish who comes out of the famous Keomi Gray 1841–1914

I will look for more, it as been great learning of the Gipsy Peoples from the South if you know anything at all your more than welcome to say for everything is of great interest to me, i have researched Scotland in my own way for many hours you can ask me if you want to know things about the Northern lands the Borders i have searched offten for answers and will try and help you if i can i will just say i don't know if i know nothing but i have searched and will tell you if i know anything that you may want to know, i do not really know much about the Baileys though but have lots of knowledge about the Blyth Farrs Rutherford's and such, well i found lots of interesting storeys.

michael


ps... i think i just found out about the Baileys of Kent i just this minute after writing this letter then went onto Ancestry and searched for a Yelding and another Match came up but this one as the Baileys of Kent in their tree i will tell you everything tomorrow, they are all in this tree the Scamps the lot

52
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 25 April 21 13:19 BST (UK)  »
   Hi
 
The Clarke Female who I match to goes back in her tree to a John Scamp 1693 then many more Scamps come along including Rose Kemp (Scamp)1755, I  wonder is this how the Kemp's became Scamps or the Kemp's were Scamps before or something like that but I think something is going on for the Kemp's then go back to George Kemp 1680, Rose is in quite a few of my other Gipsy Matches trees, on the Clarke side they go back to Margaret Clarke1611, sticking to the Scamp side they go back to John Lock 1715 and Thomas Stanley 1593 plus Elsabeth Lee 1595.

Now Margery Baylie 1578 who you ask about is stated as not from the South but Didsbury, Lancashire, which side of the tree she is on I do not know for I have not wrote to my dna match to access more information this information is just on the open profile that they let everyone view freely.

Do not give up though for now listen to this, the Clark Lady as the Northern India  Balkans Central Asia and South Southern India dna and shares with me 51 dna matches who all are from the Gipsy Family's of old or have old Romany Gipsy Relations some are directly straight down the line others have old People in their trees who come from the oldest of the Gipsy's either way the dna is still alive in them in this day,  there will be more than 51 Cousin matches for they only highlight matches in the 1 – 6th Cousin group, so this is the important bit for you to liston to for in the shared matches that me and this Clarke Lady above share well there is one named Bailey he is a shared Cousin to the both of us, he is in the 4th – 6th Cousin range with me when they state this they say there is a chance of evan being a kind of third Cousin, I think its best to start at the far end at the sixth range then through other ways try to work things out, all these ranges I have no doubt at all will change as time moves onwards to more discovery's in the science of the dna, use everything as a guide at the moment, its just to understand that the people who work in dna will regrade much of the data but the data is showing up ancient Family lines that innter connect through other Family lines, I suppose this is just the beginning for in 50 yeares when the peoples of the next day come they will know more and look back on these times as rather primitive, the dna though that was lost generations ago through admixture will not be lost again for it is now being documented in this day so evan if your Greatgrandchild was to not show the dna of your own Greatgrandmother they would still know about her through your own saved data of your own dna sampling in this day, so evan if there was no paper trail as in census records your offspring of the yeares to come will use your dna research in this day to form that bigger picture that we must all seak.

 
  So me and the Clarke Lady both share dna with this Bailey Male who also as the North Indian dna, I share 48 dna Cousin matches with this Bailey all are of the Gipsy's, so this means the Baileys are of the Gipsy's and they share dna with these Gipsy's of the South yet what part of Britain do the Baileys come from. 

 
I looked for you to, through my many Kent location Gipsy matches and found a Lady who as a Lambert Mother in the 5th – 8th Cousin range she goes back to William Lambert 1816–1876  there is a picture painting of a Gipsy Varda over his name so i think the Lambert's may come from the Gipsy's i wrote this for you because they like you have the Family named Friend in their tree, Deborah Friend 1718–1772 Thomas Friend 1654– Thomas Friend 1680–1754 John Frend 1610–1662, they also are related to the Rowlands, this line goes back to Goodfellow Rowland 1751–1816, the Rowlands are related to the Stanley Family because i have several Stanley dna matches who are born and bred Stanley's Male and Female, and i can remember the Rowlands in one of their Family trees when i was looking, just to add it seams like the Stanley's like the Young's who i match to seam to be located in America now, there may be some in England but i do remember reading the profiles of quite a few of them and i think they are American now, the Lambert Lady shares 18 dna Cousins with me they include the Boswell's Young's smith's Wharton's Worden's of Rock Hill, York, South Carolina, USA, Sharp's (AbeleLucasStanley's) Stanley's lee's Jeffery's and another Bailey related to the Worden's Wharton's in the 4th – 6th range, i do not know anything of the Lambert's from the South yet they must have very old Romany Gipsy Ancestry from at the least one of these above that then reconnects them all, or evan several connections over many yeares connecting several Family lines as one through dna as a Family in dna.

I hope some of this may be of help to you, remember though how the Clarke match who's Mother is a Scamp, she shares old dna with the match named Bailey, they both to share a bit of the Indian dna, they both share me to, but not a clue how i come into it, its interesting tho, i hope you may find more and i will write back here if i find anything else, i do hope life is fine by you and it was good talking to you to.

michael



 

53
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Monday 19 April 21 21:26 BST (UK)  »
 
This message is for everyone on Rootschat who read these words, you will see how Sky my Cousin started this thread about our Ancestors and how many names come into this history, you will see how Sky as done the dna test and i also, my dna says i am the British way dna yet you all must of read of my many connections to the old Romany Family's of Britain and America, well also you will know if you have been listening how i have stated that i am dna related to Romany Gipsy Peoples throughout Europe who hold no British dna only far of old Romany Gipsy Travelled routes dna as in Country's of origin as in Ethnicity, tonite i just looked at again another dna match, this Cousin Match as no British dna yet if you read their Ethnicity you will see how they come from Gipsy's, i share Five Cousins with this Match all the Five are from the British Romany Family's of Origin with very strong Cousin links to most of the Old Gipsy Names, these Five share with me Cousin Matches from as much as 86 to 58 that meens i share Cousin dna with my Five Matches that cover maybe all the Gipsy Family's of Britain, the least of my Matches share 58 Cousins with me the most 86 shared Cousins yet we all share a Cousin Match with the Person below who holds no British dna, my Matches share dna with this Match below yet how do i come into such things.

this below is Martas dna Ethnicity as you see with your own eyes there is no British way dna yet me and Marta are far of dna Cousins in the Common Ancestor range, i have not given Martas full name ony their first name




Marta  Ethnicity from Ancestry as sent to me as a Cousin yet my Ethnicity differs from what Ancestry tell me, i have several more Cousins from Europe who are from the Gipsy Romany Family's that came from the far lands they all hold no dna from Britain yet time and time again it is stated i have the same dna as them yet not the same Ethnicity, i am just putting this up for history, in the future others can see the truth that i freely write here as real truth stated by me that i have not yet come to understand, only the truth matters lies are a part of history but they can change history that's why governments ban people from speaking for they only want their narrative to be known, when you ban the spoken word just be course of a reason of your making you then burn books then evan attack people for thinking, then we have a robot world controlled by the few, this is the way of things and things to come, on my Fathers side i have hundreds of dna Matches to and not one is from the Gipsy's or not one holds the Ethnicity of the Country's travelled by the Gipsy's, all my over Five Hundred Gipsy dna Matches reconnect to each other in Clusters they do not interlink with my Fathers Clusters yet i link with the Gipsy's of Britain America and Europe that do not link with my Father only my Mother yet it is my Fathers Ethnicity that shows up yet the Gipsy dna pushers this aside and this came from my Mothers Old Family i wonder is Ethnicity dna or is dna Ethnicity or is dna dna, or what is dna, or how can you have dna that Ethnicity does not match, i will keep looking.

 Ireland
0%
 
Scotland
0%
 
England & Northwestern Europe
0%
 
Wales
0%
 
 
Northern India
38%
 
The Balkans
22%
 
Greece & Albania
16%
 
Turkey & the Caucasus
10%
 
Eastern Europe & Russia
6%
 
Southern India
 3%
European Jewish
2%
 
Cyprus
2%
 
Iran/Persia
1%


I hope this information helps others to understand that what we think as reason is only how we have been taught to count, no one who as ever lived understands numbers, our time in Genealogy is but the cusp of a mighty rainbow where true maths reside yet in time people yet may learn of such things, i wonder is Ethnicity dna or is dna just dna and Ethnicity something else, does anyone know the true answer in this time.

michael

54
Travelling People / Re: Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher
« on: Sunday 18 April 21 20:14 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jane

   You come from the greatest of Peoples thank you for putting the history up of your relatives, it is of the most importance to help people of the future to learn of everything that in after our times will be lost to them, just in the feel of a persons words may history be passed on, i know you already have found out lots of things but are any of these reports of help, if i find more i will write back and tell you of such things, these below are just a few extracts that i find, the Newspaper Archives are a must for all who come on Rootschat, it is only a few pounds to sign up for a chance to find out  vast amount of information of the past times, everyone who is serious about researching their old Family's from the Gipsy Peoples of long ago should signe up to the Archives and await to be amazed
 
Friday 31 January 1851
    Stamford Mercury
      Lincolnshire

on the road, Trinity Smith, gipsy aged 70……...


Friday 31 January 1851
   Lincolnshire Chronicle
     Lincolnshire
   
in a Gipsy Tent, Trinity wife of Cain Smith, basket-maker, aged 70…………. 


Friday 25 February 1853
  Lincolnshire Chronicle
     Lincolnshire
 
At Pilsgate, on the 19th inst., very suddenly, Baity son of Cain Smith, basket-maker……... 

 
Friday 30 September 1853
    Stamford Mercury
      Lincolnshire

 
 A Gipsy's Prophecy. —At Northampton, a few days ago, gipsy woman named Trinity Smith was sentenced to three months' imprisonment for defrauding Mrs. Braines of Is. 6……….
 

 
 Friday 11 April 1856
   Stamford Mercury
    Lincolnshire

and on the 9th, Cain alias Gipsy Smith, formerly of Wittering, aged 76. At the Railway gate-house, Easton, Lavina infant daughter of Mr. Thos. Smith………... 

 
 Monday 07 August 1911
    Aberdeen Press and Journal
     Aberdeenshire
       Scotland


 A gipsy woman,- named Trinity Smith, had (according to correspondent) a family of daughters named respectively Levise, Centina - Cinderella, and .............

I know Jane you most probably have seen these above before but i think of other peoples who may pass this way now or in the future, the greatest gift is the gift of giving, take care Jane

michael

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