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Messages - panished

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937
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Monday 02 November 15 21:50 GMT (UK)  »
look into the fire becca,

mam , you alright mam,

becca I,v to go soon but you know I,ll always be there, always be at your side, look to the night sky, and I,ll be there , but mam I don't want you to go,

look into the fire becca, look into the fire, tell me what do you see,
I see flames mam , dancing flames,
then look into the flames becca ,look deep into the flames, now what do you see
I see you mam, I see you , in a coffin  mam, I see you,

don't be afraid becca, I,ll always be there,

938
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 22:17 GMT (UK)  »
 H. Hampton Copnall, Nottinghamshire County Records: Notes and Extracts from the Nottinghamshire County Records of the 17th Century, Henry B. Saxton, 1915

 

ROGUES, VAGRANTS, &c.

In the Records of 14th April, 1655, there is a definition of a Rogue and Vagabond as follows:


 

These persons hereunder mentioned being above the age of seaven years, are by the Law adjudged Rogues &c. &c.
 All persons calling themselves Schollers going about begging; All seafaring men pretending losses of their shipps or Goods on ye Sea going about the Country begging, having not testimoniall under the hand of a Justice of peace, or if the time limitted by the same for his journey be expired, All idle persons going about the Country begging, or useing any subtill craft or unlawfull games or player or feigning themselves to have knowledge in Physiognomy Palmaistry or other like Crafty Science Or pretending that that they can tell destinys fortunes or such other Phantasticall Imaginations; All persons that be or uttar themselves to be Proctors procurers, patent gatherers or collectors for Goales, prisons or hospitalls; All fencers bearwards comon players of Interludes and Minstralls wandring abroad. All Jugglers Tinkers Pedlers and petty chapmen wandring abroad, All wandring persons and comon Labourers being persons able in body useing loytering and refuseing to worke for such reasonable wages as are taxed, or comonly given in such parts where such persons doe or shall happen to dwell or abide not haveing liveing otherwise to maintain themselves All persons delivered out of Goales that shall begg for their fees or otherwise doe travill begging pretending losses by fyre or otherwise All such persons (not being felons) pretending themselves to be Egiptiants or wandring in ye habit form or attyre of counterfit Egiptians All such persons as shall wander upp and down the Country to sell Glasses (not being duly Licenced) are adjudged Rogues &c.

 

 

 

The Parish Constables had statutory powers and duties to place in the Stocks and to whip any Vagrants they may find, and pass them on from Constable to Constable till they reached the parish in which they were legally settled—usually the parish of their birth.

 

 

 
 

 

 

The using of forged documents for begging purposes was not unusual.

 

 

 

 

There were many Indictments of persons " for refusing to carry passports."

When the Court found a person to be an "incorrigible Vagabond" they ordered him to be burnt with the letter "R" on the left shoulder before being sent to the place of settlement. The burning took place in Court.

On 10th July, 1615, an Order was made that an incorrigible vagabond "then and there in Court with a hot burning hent a large Roman letter R be impressed the size of a shilling on his left arm."

On 10th October, 1617, an Order was made that an incorrigible vagabond "in open Session be burnt in the left shoulder with the Roman letter R of the width of a shilling."

 

In 1623, complaints were made of the abundance of wandering vagabonds being allowed to pass by unpunished by the negligence in the Constables, and the Chief Constables of the Wapentake of Bassetlaw were ordered to send their warrants to the under Constables, keepers of the night and day watches for the apprehension and punishment of the vagabonds and wandering beggars.

 

 

Constables were fined for laxity and neglect in the treatment of rogues and vagabonds. Among the charges recorded against Constables are the following:

Because being instructed to take a certain Vagabond before a Justice of the peace he permitted him to go at large in contempt of the lord the King.
 Permitting a Vagabond to wander about unpunished.
 Permitting a Vagabond to beg in the towns of Retford, Wellough and Gamston.
 Refusing the execute punishment on a Vagabond brought to him, &c, &c, &c.

It was an offence for anyone to refuse to assist a Constable in the punishing of a vagrant, and there were presentments in respect of this offence, and also "for refusing to help Constable with Vagrant to the Stocks."

 

 

 

 

 

On 20th April, 1612, a "collyer" of Selston was presented for harbouring vagrants.

 

Fines were also imposed "for permitting wandering Vagabonds" and "for not sending away Vagabonds"; and keepers of alehouses lost their licences if they "entertained Vagrants, Vagabonds and suspicious persons" in their houses.

 

GIPSIES.

By the Statute 22 Henry VIII. c. 10, gipsies (or as they were then called Egyptians) were banished from the kingdom, and subsequent legislation imposed punishment on any person who imported gipsies into the Kingdom.

There were presentments against Constables "for permitting Vagrants called Egiptians to escape," "for permitting Vagabonds (Egiptians) to go unpunished," and "for having permitted Gipsies to remain in the townships longer than was necessary," &c.

There were also presentments against alehouse keepers "for harbouring Egiptians."

On 8th January, 1615-1616, a warrant was issued against Gabriel Elston of Chilwell "because he procured two Egyptians to deliver from custody" a man who had been arrested on a warrant.

939
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 21:23 GMT (UK)  »
 
W E Doubleday, Notts villages: Bestwood, The Nottinghamshire Guardian (1942)

 Dan Boswell, the gipsy king, died at Bestwood in 1823 and his body was removed for burial
attended by a vast concourse of mourners.

























 
 

 



 
 

   
 
 .

940
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 21:04 GMT (UK)  »
Nottinghamshire history resoures for local histories and genealogists W E Doubleday, Notts Villages: Selston, The Nottinghamshire Guardian (August 1956) Church in decay

Stretton, who was here with his notebook in 1813, described the church as in a sore state of decay. The pulpit lay in the chancel, the font lay broken in the churchyard, and the chancel, he said, was "far in decay." Subsequently, the walling developed cracks, and in 1899, the fabric was completely restored.

 

 

  The noble south porch still preserves remains of the hook and chain once used to keep cattle out of the sacred building.

 

  Until enclosures invaded the wastes and commons, this district was attractive to the gipsies who formed camps, hereabouts, especially in the rear of the pinfold at Selston.

 
Dan Boswell's grave in Selston churchyard..

At an encampment near Bestwood in 1823, their "King" Dan Boswell, died and after interment inside Eastwood and Selston had been refused, the body was buried near the tower in Selston churchyard in the presence of a large concourse of gipsies and other spectators.

According to tradition, he gave his daughter a quart measure full of golden guineas at her wedding by way of dowry.

so they had it all on to keep cattle out of the church, never mind the grave yard, that's a good bit of sound evidence, doesn't mean a cow broke the grave, but this tells you for sure they were all over the place in long gone times, merr, and here it says Dan died in bestwood, not halls green, its miles away, then they talk of eastwood, pluss the church was nigh on a reck just before Dan died, merr
one day someone will find the truth

michael

941
Travelling People / Re: Grays of Whittlesey
« on: Tuesday 06 October 15 20:19 BST (UK)  »
hello Lisa

that was very nice of people who wrote to you trying to help, your so lucky in life to meet such people
 I suppose now I should say that your lucky not to meet the bad ones,  but you know now there's lots who just shame themselves and cherry pick fancy names ,there's lots now could help you, but I would say your lucky for the nice folk who have tried, them decent folk,

I should stop banging on about Sue Day, but I tell everyone she's the real deal, in genealogy she's a gift to suss the lot out, I tell you in one hour she would know if your relatives came from all you seek, one hour she could do it, I don't know if she's the mind, but just write to Romany genes web site and say I ask for her to tell you what you seek, if she says no ,well, I wont  not believe it, I do hope you find what you seek, but look how lucky you was to meet the nice people who tried to help a stranger

in life you are always you, that goes for everyone, nice to know things, nice to understand, but isn't it great to be you, and how nice it is to meet nice like minded folk , you  are a very lucky person in deed,

michael

942
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Thursday 01 October 15 22:39 BST (UK)  »
Rich,   I wrote this in page one,


Derbyshire times 02 2007
Despite the precarious nature of the event, no accident has ever been recorded…except for one incumbent who never made it almost. When thirty years ago, the Rev Vic Simmons, was about to read his final tower sermon set his foot alight with weed killer (accidentally). He was determined to do it stating:

“It was the highlight of the church year. I didn’t want to miss it.”

So a chair was carried up and no doubt he made a slow and rather tender climb to the top.


 tell me , why do you think I wrote it,
and I wrote it long before I talked about what we was talking about, and that was only thinking aloud of what we have so far found, but I wrote this above about the rev Vic Simmons be course I think the way I do , for it is the way I am,

when I get the photos ,one day, I will put them on, and I'll try and find more information, its just I struggle for the time to do such things,

your a top man yourself,
good luck 

 
yes Rich go and see for yourself, why not , all them scholars of long ago, going round the country, talking to this person or that person, there was nothing special about them, you , me , we can talk and do as we see freely, I used to talk to a great man named Elik, he says he's from the royal ones of Scotland those Farr Blyth's, descendant he was, he didn't go on to me about such things but others he did, he was really kind and would talk to me about Gipsy things and certain family's, we wrote to each other about such things i wish he was here now , I want people to remember his name ,
rest in peace Elik, you done a man a good turn before you would do him a bad one

thank you for being so kind

michael


943
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Thursday 01 October 15 21:26 BST (UK)  »
like I said Rich , its only my talk, most people think I'm strange, and don't understand me one bit ,i,m not trying to say I know things, or this is what you do or this is what you don't do,i always say this is my talk, but I find its usually people who cant talk who jump in and have a go, what can a man do in life but just say his own talk, lots just pretend they have ways or so called customs, done to much reading, I wouldn't go to no funeral and take photos, but I see no harm years later researching or family knowledge photos, again just my talk ,don't get the two mixed up , its just respectful not to be taking photos at a funeral, what I,m talking about now at selston is totally different ,my talk is its mokody to even talk about mokody ,but I,ll chance it to just help others, see just my talk ,straight and true, please don't ever try to understand, i,m nothing like the people at that funeral,

I,m the last of the line ,ther,ll be no more when I,m gone

944
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Thursday 01 October 15 20:54 BST (UK)  »
and I forgot to tell you, just finish writing any time you want, don't write just be course you think you have to, you done just fine, in fact fantastic, and if you ever write in a magazine or paper just say you found everything, don't have to be telling no one of me, for when we've done here I'll tell them to delete the lot but you copy things and put it in your name, only the bits you want to copy mind you,
I know you'll do this

your pal michael

945
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Thursday 01 October 15 20:45 BST (UK)  »
I got the bit about rev Harrison in the first post mixed in with the talk about rev Wright, herrmmm

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