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Messages - panished

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973
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Tuesday 03 November 15 09:26 GMT (UK)  »

yes I'm fine Rich

I hope you are well to, your writings about Dan Louis and Sarah Boswell is I'm sure interesting for all who are lucky enough to read your posts, I could never tire of reading your   words ,

I found in some of the places on the internet that I searched that st Hellen's was restored or changed years back with stone from a man who had the stone for st Marys in Nottingham, I will put it on when I find it again, I just find things such as these interesting, its just how I think, so interesting to see the bigger picture, you get a feel for the times and people you think of or write about, I found a few writings of the old populations of those places we talked of, when you find that years ago selston was so small and only a few hundred people about the place, no wonder when the Gipsy came they would be the talk of the town, I will put that on to

and the Boswells would be the real deal to, they would of looked the part I would say, that why I put all that writing on about the 1600s, it shows how there was lots of folk moving abouts the country, but the Gipsys was different, that's why some of the other traverlas even thoe they did similar trades and true everyone no matter who they were got in trouble now and then, but back the 1600s they new the difference between what they called Egiptians and traverlas, that's why they called some traverlas ,counterfeit, you know like frauding away,

properly in the 1700s things were maybe mixing more, in all sorts of ways, this is how I see things from what I learn from writings I read and talking to knowledgeable people as your self, but you can always learn more and better your mind, that's what learning is, I will just tell you a story about st Marys you know the bigger picture , but I,ll do another post, I'm a dingolo and always deleting my posts of words to make it fit.


974
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Monday 02 November 15 22:09 GMT (UK)  »
I don't know but through time I sure hear a lot of st marrys church round Britain, I wonder does it meen anything from long ago

975
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Monday 02 November 15 22:06 GMT (UK)  »
hello Rich

when you talk of st marrys Nottingham, about Dans Wife, do you meen Nottingham st marrys or in Nottinghamshire, my Mother was born from st marrys and died there to but that is the old high church in Nottingham, which st marrys do you talk of,

michael

976
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Monday 02 November 15 21:50 GMT (UK)  »
look into the fire becca,

mam , you alright mam,

becca I,v to go soon but you know I,ll always be there, always be at your side, look to the night sky, and I,ll be there , but mam I don't want you to go,

look into the fire becca, look into the fire, tell me what do you see,
I see flames mam , dancing flames,
then look into the flames becca ,look deep into the flames, now what do you see
I see you mam, I see you , in a coffin  mam, I see you,

don't be afraid becca, I,ll always be there,

977
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 22:17 GMT (UK)  »
 H. Hampton Copnall, Nottinghamshire County Records: Notes and Extracts from the Nottinghamshire County Records of the 17th Century, Henry B. Saxton, 1915

 

ROGUES, VAGRANTS, &c.

In the Records of 14th April, 1655, there is a definition of a Rogue and Vagabond as follows:


 

These persons hereunder mentioned being above the age of seaven years, are by the Law adjudged Rogues &c. &c.
 All persons calling themselves Schollers going about begging; All seafaring men pretending losses of their shipps or Goods on ye Sea going about the Country begging, having not testimoniall under the hand of a Justice of peace, or if the time limitted by the same for his journey be expired, All idle persons going about the Country begging, or useing any subtill craft or unlawfull games or player or feigning themselves to have knowledge in Physiognomy Palmaistry or other like Crafty Science Or pretending that that they can tell destinys fortunes or such other Phantasticall Imaginations; All persons that be or uttar themselves to be Proctors procurers, patent gatherers or collectors for Goales, prisons or hospitalls; All fencers bearwards comon players of Interludes and Minstralls wandring abroad. All Jugglers Tinkers Pedlers and petty chapmen wandring abroad, All wandring persons and comon Labourers being persons able in body useing loytering and refuseing to worke for such reasonable wages as are taxed, or comonly given in such parts where such persons doe or shall happen to dwell or abide not haveing liveing otherwise to maintain themselves All persons delivered out of Goales that shall begg for their fees or otherwise doe travill begging pretending losses by fyre or otherwise All such persons (not being felons) pretending themselves to be Egiptiants or wandring in ye habit form or attyre of counterfit Egiptians All such persons as shall wander upp and down the Country to sell Glasses (not being duly Licenced) are adjudged Rogues &c.

 

 

 

The Parish Constables had statutory powers and duties to place in the Stocks and to whip any Vagrants they may find, and pass them on from Constable to Constable till they reached the parish in which they were legally settled—usually the parish of their birth.

 

 

 
 

 

 

The using of forged documents for begging purposes was not unusual.

 

 

 

 

There were many Indictments of persons " for refusing to carry passports."

When the Court found a person to be an "incorrigible Vagabond" they ordered him to be burnt with the letter "R" on the left shoulder before being sent to the place of settlement. The burning took place in Court.

On 10th July, 1615, an Order was made that an incorrigible vagabond "then and there in Court with a hot burning hent a large Roman letter R be impressed the size of a shilling on his left arm."

On 10th October, 1617, an Order was made that an incorrigible vagabond "in open Session be burnt in the left shoulder with the Roman letter R of the width of a shilling."

 

In 1623, complaints were made of the abundance of wandering vagabonds being allowed to pass by unpunished by the negligence in the Constables, and the Chief Constables of the Wapentake of Bassetlaw were ordered to send their warrants to the under Constables, keepers of the night and day watches for the apprehension and punishment of the vagabonds and wandering beggars.

 

 

Constables were fined for laxity and neglect in the treatment of rogues and vagabonds. Among the charges recorded against Constables are the following:

Because being instructed to take a certain Vagabond before a Justice of the peace he permitted him to go at large in contempt of the lord the King.
 Permitting a Vagabond to wander about unpunished.
 Permitting a Vagabond to beg in the towns of Retford, Wellough and Gamston.
 Refusing the execute punishment on a Vagabond brought to him, &c, &c, &c.

It was an offence for anyone to refuse to assist a Constable in the punishing of a vagrant, and there were presentments in respect of this offence, and also "for refusing to help Constable with Vagrant to the Stocks."

 

 

 

 

 

On 20th April, 1612, a "collyer" of Selston was presented for harbouring vagrants.

 

Fines were also imposed "for permitting wandering Vagabonds" and "for not sending away Vagabonds"; and keepers of alehouses lost their licences if they "entertained Vagrants, Vagabonds and suspicious persons" in their houses.

 

GIPSIES.

By the Statute 22 Henry VIII. c. 10, gipsies (or as they were then called Egyptians) were banished from the kingdom, and subsequent legislation imposed punishment on any person who imported gipsies into the Kingdom.

There were presentments against Constables "for permitting Vagrants called Egiptians to escape," "for permitting Vagabonds (Egiptians) to go unpunished," and "for having permitted Gipsies to remain in the townships longer than was necessary," &c.

There were also presentments against alehouse keepers "for harbouring Egiptians."

On 8th January, 1615-1616, a warrant was issued against Gabriel Elston of Chilwell "because he procured two Egyptians to deliver from custody" a man who had been arrested on a warrant.

978
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 21:23 GMT (UK)  »
 
W E Doubleday, Notts villages: Bestwood, The Nottinghamshire Guardian (1942)

 Dan Boswell, the gipsy king, died at Bestwood in 1823 and his body was removed for burial
attended by a vast concourse of mourners.

























 
 

 



 
 

   
 
 .

979
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 21:04 GMT (UK)  »
Nottinghamshire history resoures for local histories and genealogists W E Doubleday, Notts Villages: Selston, The Nottinghamshire Guardian (August 1956) Church in decay

Stretton, who was here with his notebook in 1813, described the church as in a sore state of decay. The pulpit lay in the chancel, the font lay broken in the churchyard, and the chancel, he said, was "far in decay." Subsequently, the walling developed cracks, and in 1899, the fabric was completely restored.

 

 

  The noble south porch still preserves remains of the hook and chain once used to keep cattle out of the sacred building.

 

  Until enclosures invaded the wastes and commons, this district was attractive to the gipsies who formed camps, hereabouts, especially in the rear of the pinfold at Selston.

 
Dan Boswell's grave in Selston churchyard..

At an encampment near Bestwood in 1823, their "King" Dan Boswell, died and after interment inside Eastwood and Selston had been refused, the body was buried near the tower in Selston churchyard in the presence of a large concourse of gipsies and other spectators.

According to tradition, he gave his daughter a quart measure full of golden guineas at her wedding by way of dowry.

so they had it all on to keep cattle out of the church, never mind the grave yard, that's a good bit of sound evidence, doesn't mean a cow broke the grave, but this tells you for sure they were all over the place in long gone times, merr, and here it says Dan died in bestwood, not halls green, its miles away, then they talk of eastwood, pluss the church was nigh on a reck just before Dan died, merr
one day someone will find the truth

michael

980
Travelling People / Re: Grays of Whittlesey
« on: Tuesday 06 October 15 20:19 BST (UK)  »
hello Lisa

that was very nice of people who wrote to you trying to help, your so lucky in life to meet such people
 I suppose now I should say that your lucky not to meet the bad ones,  but you know now there's lots who just shame themselves and cherry pick fancy names ,there's lots now could help you, but I would say your lucky for the nice folk who have tried, them decent folk,

I should stop banging on about Sue Day, but I tell everyone she's the real deal, in genealogy she's a gift to suss the lot out, I tell you in one hour she would know if your relatives came from all you seek, one hour she could do it, I don't know if she's the mind, but just write to Romany genes web site and say I ask for her to tell you what you seek, if she says no ,well, I wont  not believe it, I do hope you find what you seek, but look how lucky you was to meet the nice people who tried to help a stranger

in life you are always you, that goes for everyone, nice to know things, nice to understand, but isn't it great to be you, and how nice it is to meet nice like minded folk , you  are a very lucky person in deed,

michael

981
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Thursday 01 October 15 22:39 BST (UK)  »
Rich,   I wrote this in page one,


Derbyshire times 02 2007
Despite the precarious nature of the event, no accident has ever been recorded…except for one incumbent who never made it almost. When thirty years ago, the Rev Vic Simmons, was about to read his final tower sermon set his foot alight with weed killer (accidentally). He was determined to do it stating:

“It was the highlight of the church year. I didn’t want to miss it.”

So a chair was carried up and no doubt he made a slow and rather tender climb to the top.


 tell me , why do you think I wrote it,
and I wrote it long before I talked about what we was talking about, and that was only thinking aloud of what we have so far found, but I wrote this above about the rev Vic Simmons be course I think the way I do , for it is the way I am,

when I get the photos ,one day, I will put them on, and I'll try and find more information, its just I struggle for the time to do such things,

your a top man yourself,
good luck 

 
yes Rich go and see for yourself, why not , all them scholars of long ago, going round the country, talking to this person or that person, there was nothing special about them, you , me , we can talk and do as we see freely, I used to talk to a great man named Elik, he says he's from the royal ones of Scotland those Farr Blyth's, descendant he was, he didn't go on to me about such things but others he did, he was really kind and would talk to me about Gipsy things and certain family's, we wrote to each other about such things i wish he was here now , I want people to remember his name ,
rest in peace Elik, you done a man a good turn before you would do him a bad one

thank you for being so kind

michael


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