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Messages - panished

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991
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 27 September 15 17:46 BST (UK)  »


and that was a very interesting post about what you just wrote,
 I hope you write a sort of book one day,     

michael

992
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 27 September 15 17:33 BST (UK)  »
this is some of the deleated post I wrote of from the same southwell and Nottingham churches web page,


The churchyard immediately surrounding the church building was formally closed in 1857. Burials continued to take place, so it must be assumed that a new area was in use, and a further one acre was added and consecrated in 1893. The Post Office Directory of 1876 gives a very brief description of the St Helenís, and states that the patronage has been purchased by the Wright family, who continue as patrons to the present day. It adds that the vicarage has a yearly value of £150. Although the value was increasing, it still appears to have been insufficient for the needs of the incumbent, and in 1884 the Ecclesiastical Commissioners granted £170 per annum in augmentation of the living.

In was in 1877, while Wright was still the Vicar, that the Selston Enclosure Act was passed. The was the last Enclosure Act in Nottinghamshire, and it led to many acres of the former common land being fenced, a move not entirely approved of by Selstonís residents. In Wright's Directory of Nottingham of 1894-95 it is reported, 'In 1878 a great agitation was caused in the parish as to the rights of the people on the vast area of forest and pasture land known as Selston Hall Green.

so the enclosure act came after the time of the letter  ,but the churchyard was closed in 57, formally,that must mean informally it may have been closed much earlier,

yes the cow got the blame, mind you ,men are always saying bad things about old cows , merr

993
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 27 September 15 16:52 BST (UK)  »
well done Rich people will learn great things from you,

but what about the book that says the stone was broke in 1938 by Arthur  Mee, that must mean it was broke not by a cow if it was changed in 1912, who broke it that time, the building work may still have been ongoing, or some person could of smashed it if they seen the writing was done wrong, I was told by that man that he dug the old bit of bottom stone out, that's why he new it was being changed,

 I thought the new spot is good for people looking round the churchyard, i,m sure the old layout of surrounding graves would be right for what he said, its hard to remember  thoe, easy to mix things up,

that sounds to me a good piece of evidence you found, but did anyone really see a cow knock a grave over, or just people assuming that would be about right,
some of the writing I deleted from my earlier post was about the times of the enclosure act that hit selston common right where Dan passed away, there was much trouble then, not sure if the times match I deleted everything I found ,I know people talk and say things like kings, chief, or whatever, but would people of Dans put such words on a grave stone, there would be the talk of old top men even by the locals, that's just how people talk, mind you , you already wrote about so far it never said king, in the earliest time you found yet

 so that letter you found sounds right to me, but unless I seen the cow break the stone I wouldn't put to much heed in concrete truth, just say that's part of the history ,meaning someone just saying they think that happened, well your one good detective, i,m not really educated to your standard in writing ,  I need the spell check big time, see the truth is always the best route, I hope you find more and people remember you, I will anyway,

your Sherlock , and I,m his pal, the daft one,

all the best Rich, I was only having a go, trying to do the right decent thing,

michael

994
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 27 September 15 14:58 BST (UK)  »
what I mean about the history of the font is, well they as in vicars , curates, or whatever name they have ,they tried to make there old church good, stone mad for showing it good,  they did what they had to do, now who is the main protagonist, or should I say who is the true king, or even kings of there church, most people in most times do things for the right reason, and there's always  an answer for everything, maybe its just not been found yet,

michael

995
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 27 September 15 14:24 BST (UK)  »
that took some time ,I had to delete thousands of words, then I just realised I could of done two posts,
never mind,

I hope this helps others in the future, there could be some truth in there,

michael

996
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 27 September 15 14:16 BST (UK)  »
 


  I was just wondering about why the grave was broke, did a cow do it, did the Gipsy smash it, then I read  there was a massive restorations of the church around the time of the parsons visit, I think so endways, anyway the grave could be broke for all those reasons but just read a bit of this,
this  might explain the dates getting mixed up,

Southwell and Nottingham church history project


The low number attending the church and the absence of the vicar may go some way towards explaining why, during the 18th and 19th centuries, the church seems to have been neglected and falling into disrepair. The next three vicars were largely absent, but there was a long-serving curate in the parish. John Pepperís name first appears in the parish registers in 1803. He continued to complete the registers and officiate at nearly all of the baptisms, marriages and burials which took place at St Helenís until the beginning of 1836. The register chest installed in the church in 1815 bears the name of this curate, not the vicarís name.

 
then the building work started, all over Dans gravestone,


At the end of the 1890s, the Rev C. Harrison turned his attention to the condition of St Helenís, and saw the need for extensive repair, restoration and enlargement

On 3 July 1904, St Helenís was closed, becoming a building site for almost a year.

The Rev C. Harrison lived long enough to see the beginning of the First World War, but he died in May 1916. Photographs show his grave covered with an enormous display of floral tributes, evidence of the high regard in which he was held

During the 1960s and 1970s only minor alterations were made inside St Helenís. The exterior appearance was greatly altered by the removal of many gravestones from the oldest part of the churchyard in 1963-1964. Some of the stones were used to create paths,

25 June 1810
 
Joseph Dixie Churchill, vicar
 
Died 1836. Rector of Blicking-with-Empingham 1802-1810 and 1811-1836, Vicar of Cadesby 1810-1836, Vicar of Henstead 1811-1836.
 

25 Nov 1836
 
Fleetwood Churchill, vicar
 
Son of J Churchill, born at Empingham. Vicar of Roughton 1817-1855. Died Feb 1855
 

19 July 1855
 
George Frederick Williamson, vicar
 
Also chaplain to Duchess of Gordon 1847-1863, Vicar of Longnor 1856-1864 and other posts
 

11 Sept 1856
 
Robert John William Wright, vicar
 
On cession of G Williamson. Died 2 Aug 1887, buried in the churchyard.
 

26 Nov 1887
 
Charles Harrison, vicar
 
Died 28 April 1916, buried in churchyard
 

21 July 1916
 
Richard Dudley Weller, vicar
 
He went to Ruddington 1924
 

5 Nov 1924
 
Philip Hannington Hart, vicar
 
Served in RGA 1917-1920. Resigned 12 Aug 1929
 

23 Nov 1929
 
Palmer Allison Sharp, vicar
 
 
 

22 Apr 1937
 
Henry Wright Schofield, vicar
 
On cession of Sharp
 

22 Sept 1945
 
Edward Frederick Holwell Dunnicliffe, MA, vicar
 
On cession of Schofield
 

1 Dec 1949
 
Hugh Bickersteth Bidell, vicar
 
On cession of Dunnicliffe. Biddell resignation 1 Oct 1956
 

1956
 
Gerald Nettleton Pearce, BA, vicar
 
Sequestration (cession) 14 Sept 1961
 

1962
 
Hubert Victor Simmons
 
On cession of Pearce. Died 3 March 1978, buried in churchyard
 

then I read this

0ld churches of the mansfield deanery by h walkerdine and a s buxton 1907

 

The most interesting object in the church, undoubtedly, is the ancient Norman font, which the vicar has lately had restored to its proper place. About 150 years ago it was removed from the church, and a family of the name of Gill carried it to Blackwell. It was subsequently brought back to Selston, and for many years did duty as a trough under the pump at the village inn, the "Bull and Butcher." Some few years ago it was carried to a private house and was used as a flower stand. A rose tree planted in it, from all accounts, flourished. At the recent restoration of the church the vicar secured possession of it, and it now occupies a more fitting place than beneath the pump at the village inn. Many immersions, certainly not of a religious nature, have taken place within this interesting relic. The font is the only remaining trace of the Norman period. It is bucket shaped, with a band of cable molding round it. The top has been used apparently for generations by Selstonians as a whetstone, on which to put an edge on pocket, and, perhaps, other knives

 
then I read this


Derbyshire times 02 2007
Despite the precarious nature of the event, no accident has ever been recordedÖexcept for one incumbent who never made it almost. When thirty years ago, the Rev Vic Simmons, was about to read his final tower sermon set his foot alight with weed killer (accidentally). He was determined to do it stating:

ďIt was the highlight of the church year. I didnít want to miss it.Ē

So a chair was carried up and no doubt he made a slow and rather tender climb to the top.

997
helo  Mel

very pleased to meet you, I do hope Australia is keeping you fine, well this is our lucky day, you will get your answers and It'll be the first exam I ever got right,

right then question one,

ok not a clue on that one, but you'll to look  on the Romany genes web site and write to Sue Day, she knows the lot about things down that way,  I'm up the country, and no expert on names ,just tell Sue I sent you, she might moan a bit , but say you just met me,

question two,

that's easy,
people moved about all over , all over the country to, looking for work , seeing relations , on the run for they could be on the rob, i would say only farmers would stay put ,

question three,

real easy one,

nowa days we have people called reps, they go round the place getting business, selling buying, doing the lot really, and you have tradesmen , they to go round doing the work of this day, in the past it was just the same , hawkers travellers, pedlars, all these people were just like the reps and trades people of this time, it does not mean Gipsy , anyone can travel, anyone can do whatever trade in what ever time, it does not mean a thing, it just means you travel, simple as that, most if not all the trades the Gipsys did in the past were more than likely all ready being done when the original ones first landed on these shores, so your answer is everybody was up to all sorts in the past , same as these days, that's just the way it is , in the day, as in back in the day ,I dear say , the ole locals would be able to tell the difference between there own and the Gipsys, its more undercover now, a Romany Gipsy, you wouldn't even know he was there, well smart tidy people ,clever and proud, mind you wouldn't any one who stood on the shoulder of giants,

last question,

they say there was not that many, but in some way you have to come from the few, there be the big ones like the dark Young's, old old people, the mighty Boswells and the Smiths you wouldn't cross, you have the famous Lees who seem to be everywhere, its a small list but there's more,
then you have the names only Gipsy know, there not in many if not no books why be course there Gipsys ,if you listened to some writers you would think Gipsy just went around making an ole fire and chatting to some scholar of the time, many would have threatened them and seen them of, you will never hear of these names, but they all had some thing in common, they all descend from the same people , some direct , most nowadays more than likely ole scrag ends, and nothing at all wrong with that , so you have to be of the few to belong to the many, there will be lots who travel, who descend from travellers, who shear not no bond, fair enough, you can not be a Gipsy if you don't come from the Romany in some way, and to be a full on Romany Gipsy ,well now I wouldn't know now how that would feel, you would have to seek advise elsewhere,

so there you go, I hope I did help you in some way,i do hope you find what you seek ,

michael


998
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 13 September 15 18:36 BST (UK)  »
fair play Rich
you done well there ,

I don't suppose a person can right believe anything, you know, just because its stated,
I could be wrong but I remember Linda Boswell saying on the internet a few back that she thought Boswells of Dan's would not talk like that, I'm sure she said something along those lines ,she's one of the Derby Boswells ,as for the dates ,well there must be something behind all those wrongs, maybe there's some one who propagates things like Kings , there's one thing making money from them times having Gipsy balls , but why would you go round calling your dead kings, its like a low class thing ,each to there own like, that's just my view, not sure if any of the things I wrote from what I saw on line is true but everything at  selston church yard I spoke of is as it is,  pore old Dans gravestones been up and down more times than a roller coaster, and been moved to ,i wonder is it just people in someway over different times making mileage on the back of a Gipsy like Dan Boswell, but maybe not, it would be good if his relatives the ones who look can find the truth one day , good for the Gipsy Dan Boswell, I hope anyone who as read these words of mine and yours will in the future remember and find new true things, it would be a good thing to do, it was good speaking to you Rich, I'll not be back now, but you look after yourself, fair play to old Dan Boswell, I would say he came from good people , none finer than himself I say, if you ever go by selston , see how he brings you in, you,ll feel it,good luck Rich

michael

999
Travelling People / Re: Gipsy Dan
« on: Sunday 13 September 15 13:30 BST (UK)  »
 nice one Rich

 how about this one then, the Gipsy parson Rev George Hall wrote in his book that he was at selston in 1906, well he said the epitaph was still faintly visible and referred to Dan Boswell as the chief of his Family, but Liston to this he says his farther in law was formally a curate of selston and telled George how he remembered Gipsys pouring libations of ale on the grave,

this was 1906 I think, the time of the book but in 1907  have just read this from the  calendar customs a guide to British calendar customs and local traditions Selston in Nottinghamshire is the setting for one of the handful of ceremonies which take place atop a church tower. The tower here was built in the fifteenth century and it houses eight bells. Each July on the Sunday nearest 6th, a special Tower Service is conducted by the Vicar who stands on the tower and preaches to the congregation gathered on the ground at its foot below; one of the theories for the origin of the custom is that the vicar Charles Harrison thought it would encourage visiting traveller families to participate in the service, so he began the custom in 1907. Gypsy King Dan Boswell is buried here in the churchyard and Selston Green was a regular encampment for travellers. Expect the vicarís sermon, a guest preacher and a selection of well-known hymns.

so looks like the reverent Halls relative started all this custom all be course of Gipsy Dan Boswell,  and he said there was lots of people coming then pouring ale not just putting babies on the grave,

and I read this from the Nottinghamshire history resoures for local histories and genealogists
it says the Kings England Nottinghamshire
The Midland Stronhold
Edited by Arthur Mee 1938   
The Gipsy King

Dan Boswell's gravestone.
Dan Boswell's restored gravestone.

SELSTON. The finest views of this colliery village are from the neatly tended churchyard, with lovely trees, where we look out to the Derbyshire hills and Crich Tower high in the west. It is a fitting resting-place for one who loved the open country, and under the shade of a lofty lime near the 15th century tower lies Dan Boswell, King of the Gipsies. On the broken stone now flat on his grave a few words are still seen, and though the epitaph is gone it was odd enough to be remembered:

I've lodged in many a town,
I've travelled many a year,
But death at length has brought me down
To my last lodging here.

do you see now it says the stones flat on the ground, 
and the man who put the new stone up in the early seventy's said they searched for the right date, so maybe it never in the beginning said king,
but old Gipsy Dan now sure got people talking

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