RootsChat.Com

 







hello Rich


I know what your saying about the rev Vic Simmons,

but there was two churches, I think the st Marys is not as old as st Helens, your getting mixed with the sours about Vic's life, I read he went to two churches  , but our talk is st  Helens

if you look on page one I give a list of all the church people at st  Helens in Dan Boswells time ,  I've cut it down here to the three big ones , and do you see there all buried in st  Helens with Dan
the rest are not ,I think your saying st Marrys becourse on the web I seen that to ,

number one is vicar Wright, he's the one in the time the stopped the Gipsys coming,  it was the time of the enclosure of the commonland and finishing with the old bit of the churchyard were Dan Boswell was layed to rest, I think this is what the rev Harrison is talking about when he said this from that report you just wrote,

   The Vicar of Selston, however has now another scheme on hand. His parish was years ago the rendezvous of the gipsy race, and he hopes to organise a festival in which the representatives of the varions clans could take part, and could see re-erected the broken tombstone of Dan Boswell"

 so this is Rev Wright below, st Helens


11 Sept 1856
 
Robert John William Wright, vicar
 
On cession of G Williamson. Died 2 Aug 1887, buried in the churchyard.
 
then you have Rev Harrison,

the man with great idears, I read a lot of him , there a photo on the web to,

this is him below st Helens


26 Nov 1887
 
Charles Harrison, vicar
 
Died 28 April 1916, buried in churchyard
 
 then you have  good old Vic, that's some name herbot, no wonder they called  him vic,
 this is him below st Helens not st Marys but I see why you said that, I seen his grave my self, he is of the time they cleared all the old stones up to make paths, I read a few reports on this but only wrote a little, I will have to try and find it all again but I,v forgot where it was,pluss hes the good man who at least had the dignity to put a new stone up,
 
this is him below st Helens
1962
 
Hubert Victor Simmons
 
On cession of Pearce. Died 3 March 1978, buried in churchyard
 

 yes the broken stone still  standing in 38, but the big bit is as it says the stones on its back on the ground , this is the top half, so looks so far like there was only ever one stone till 1972 I think or the odd year here or there, but I think 72, and he did say it was inside the church they searched for the date for it was me who asked him, and he did say some more things but I don't think I'll talk about it,  it was Vic he says done the lot for Dan Boswell,   I did say he could be searched out, plus he's photos of him digging the new grave in, and the old one you could read a bit but blurred, you had to dig that out the ground, when I get time I think I'll  get photos of
the path if I find it and the place where he  showed me the old stone was , just to the left it was , facing the church , plus all the vicars graves, plus the church,

I don't know if it was the register they looked at, in the church he said, no inside the church, why didn't the Family back the 1800s put the stone back,

like no one dear touch it, they might of thought Dan did it, it could be mokody Rich ,not what the books says  mokody, but how I learned from young,  mokody, I'm not trying to be clever, i,m thinking why would they not go near it, it as a lot of meaning that word does, you cant learn it by reading from all them books, it could be the stone itself  mokody, and Dan the top man , sure he came back and smashed the stone for the date was wrong,
the relatives might have moved on before the ground had settled and the stone erected, it couled have been a year before they returned , found the wrong date on the stone and it smashed, then they wouldn't touch it ,that's just my talk Rich, everyone should talk there own talk ,

michael

hello Rich

more great writing from you, very sad writing to,
I will talk another time,  I think its best to show some respect for all those people, it was very sad writing,
but I do hope to talk again
respect for all Gipsy people who have moved on,
and rest in peace all people of the world

michael

hello Rich

how can the first letter contradict the second letter,
first the man who tells of halls green, then the story of the cow breaking not kicking the headstone in two, and not seeing  the inscription, why is this, is this the earliest source of a cow, I even read some writing which says bull, do you think its just a fairy tale;

why in 1873 does he not read the inscription when in your other letter of 1874 it tells of the true inscription, well the oldest up to now, if the first letter as only a thread of truth its must be the second letter of 1874 is quoting an even older source for that inscription , through everything I have read I don't believe no cow pushed or kicked a gravestone in two, it would of just lent backwards or forwards , if there's no eye witness its just someone covering up,
a local fed up with all those Gipsys coming in strength to visit the grave in the years after Dan's death could of put the hammer through it, that's how you break a stone,

the letters contradict each other unless the inscription one is quoting an even older sours

if the relatives of Dan Boswell found the grave stone smashed they would be asking questions, being that the vicar was seldom there , the pore curate who had all the work to do maybe had to make the tale up, in my earlier post it tells how the vicar was absent most of the time in those times as quoted from this source

Southwell and Nottingham church history project


The low number attending the church and the absence of the vicar may go some way towards explaining why, during the 18th and 19th centuries, the church seems to have been neglected and falling into disrepair. The next three vicars were largely absent, but there was a long-serving curate in the parish. John Pepper’s name first appears in the parish registers in 1803. He continued to complete the registers and officiate at nearly all of the baptisms, marriages and burials which took place at St Helen’s until the beginning of 1836. The register chest installed in the church in 1815 bears the name of this curate, not the vicar’s name.


these are the two letters you found,


This letter was written to the Derbyshire Times on 7th June 1873:

Dan Boswell - 'When a lad at Pinxton some twenty years ago, I recollect having pointed out to me on Selston Common, not far distant from the Hall, the place where the Gipsy King Dan Boswell died. He was buried at the back of Selston Church, and a headstone placed to his memory. I regret to say owing to the shameful practice of allowing cows to graze in the churchyard, one of the animals broke in two the stone. When I saw it one half was left in the ground and the other part not far distant. I presume it is not possible to obtain a copy of the inscription of the stone, Any particulars relating to Boswell will greatly Oblige' W.A.  Editor - Cows still graze, to our knowledge, in two churchyards of this county. We are thinking of putting the owners of these freeholds [the clergymen] into the pillory of print


The Derbyshire Times, Sunday April 25th 1874 is the earliest source I can find which gives a description of the original stone:

"In Memory of Daniel Boswell, who died March 1827, Aged 83.
I have lodged in many a place 'tis true.
And traveled many a year,
Till God at length has brought me down
To my last lodgings here"

this is some of the deleated post I wrote of from the same southwell and Nottingham churches web page,


The churchyard immediately surrounding the church building was formally closed in 1857. Burials continued to take place, so it must be assumed that a new area was in use, and a further one acre was added and consecrated in 1893. The Post Office Directory of 1876 gives a very brief description of the St Helen’s, and states that the patronage has been purchased by the Wright family, who continue as patrons to the present day. It adds that the vicarage has a yearly value of £150. Although the value was increasing, it still appears to have been insufficient for the needs of the incumbent, and in 1884 the Ecclesiastical Commissioners granted £170 per annum in augmentation of the living.

In was in 1877, while Wright was still the Vicar, that the Selston Enclosure Act was passed. The was the last Enclosure Act in Nottinghamshire, and it led to many acres of the former common land being fenced, a move not entirely approved of by Selston’s residents. In Wright's Directory of Nottingham of 1894-95 it is reported, 'In 1878 a great agitation was caused in the parish as to the rights of the people on the vast area of forest and pasture land known as Selston Hall Green.

so the enclosure act came after the time of the letter  ,but the churchyard was closed in 57, formally,that must mean informally it may have been closed much earlier,

yes the cow got the blame, mind you ,men are always saying bad things about old cows , merr