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Messages - Liza115

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Radnorshire / Re: Where is Foesmascal?
« on: Sunday 07 January 18 00:33 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks, Roger. That looks likely. It's in the right area too. It's not a spelling I would have guessed by myself!
My theory is that Richard Price is the son or nephew of John Price, who is named as brother-in-law in the will of the father of Margaret Palfrey (nee Williams). 

Radnorshire / Where is Foesmascal?
« on: Saturday 06 January 18 23:07 GMT (UK)  »
I am trying to identify a Richard Price of Foesmascal, parish of Nantmel. His name appears in the index of details of a legal file, as below:
RD/VV/43/64 26 September 1854
1. Thomas Palfrey, Abercamlo, p. Llandewy-Ystradenny; Margaret, his wife
2. James Stephens, Trelowgoed, p. Cefnllys, farmer
3. Edward Williams, Caerhyddwen, p. Nantmel and Richard Price, Foesmascal, same p. farmers.

Edward Williams was the brother of Thomas Palfrey's wife Margaret, and the legal document had to do with a settlement on the marriage of Thomas and Margaret. I think Edward Williams' mother's maiden name was Price, so am trying to see if I can work out a relationship.
Foesmascal may be the name of a farm or locality in Nantmel, and it may be spelled wrong. Does it look like a familiar place name to anyone? Any idea where it is or was?
Thanks for any suggestions you can give.

Radnorshire / Re: Llanbadarn Vawr marriage records, Mary Palfrey
« on: Friday 10 March 17 09:59 GMT (UK)  »
My Palfrey ancestors are buried at Llanbadarn Fawr, so I feel compelled to join in.
There's another Mary Palfrey that is a better age to be the wife of Thomas Rowlands, born in the late 1830s/early 1840s in that area, but I don't know if she's the right one. 
I haven't found this Mary Palfrey in any parish records, but she is named in three wills on the National Library of Wales website:
- her uncle's: Richard Palfrey, of Llanbister, dated 1741. He names two daughters of his sister-in-law, Hester/Ester Palfrey: Mary and Hester, and mentions his brother John Palfrey.
- her grandmother's: Mary Palfrey, a widow, of Llanbister, dated 1761. She names four daughters of her daughter Hester/Esther: Mary, Hester, Anne and Elizabeth Palfrey. Her executor is her son-in-law, John Palfrey.
- her father's: John Phalfrey, of Llanbister, dated 1767. He names his four daughters: Mary Phalfrey, Ester James, Anne Phalfrey and Elizabeth Phalfrey.
John Palfrey/Phalfrey married Hester/Ester Palfrey in 1738.
So this Mary had two uncles called Richard Palfrey -- her mother's brother and her father's brother. (This is confirmed by other wills.) The Richard Palfrey who died in 1776, when Mrs Mary Rowlands is named, could be her mother's brother.
This Mary Palfrey seems to be the right age and living in the right area to be Thomas Rowlands' wife. The only thing that doesn't fit is that her father didn't use her married name in his will, which was written in 1767.
The lack of baptismal records for people of Thomas Rowlands' wife's generation means there were probably a lot more Mary Palfreys that we don't know about.
I'll be interested to hear what you find out. Good luck!   

Radnorshire / Re: Vronvary: is this a house or a village?
« on: Sunday 30 October 16 21:11 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, I've just found the date on the map. The Richard named on it is likely to be Richard B, as his father, (Richard A) died in 1807 and Richard C (a cousin of some kind who'd lived for a time at Coedgwgan hall) died in 1818. Richard D, who later lived at Vron Cottage, was in the Welsh fusileers from 1825-1847, so probably living with the regiment in 1839.
Thanks, again. It all becomes a bit clearer.

Radnorshire / Re: Vronvary: is this a house or a village?
« on: Sunday 30 October 16 20:38 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks, Mar! That shows clearly Ann Palfrey (or Palphrey) in a building to the north of the common and Richard Palffrey (the transcriber has introduced a spelling I hadn't considered) in a separate building. Which particular Richard it was will depend on the date of the map. This aligns with the census records (1861 I think) which lists a number of families in different dwellings all identified as 'Vronvary'.
In rereading Richard A's will, I find he refers to his "estate called Vronvary", and he bequeaths to his son Richard Palfrey (Richard B) "the aforesaid Messuage lands or tenement with all houses and outhouses and all appurtenances thereunto". In the list of assets is "the leasehold cottage called Vronvary".
So I guess both are true: Vronvary was the name of a house/cottage, but also the name of the estate on which a number of dwellings appeared. That answers my original question, whether all the people whose abode at their death was Vronvary were living in the same place. The answer is, some of them might have been, but there were several dwellings that might have been identified that way. Thanks, everyone.

Radnorshire / Re: Vronvary: is this a house or a village?
« on: Thursday 29 September 16 00:41 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, despair, that map is very useful.
I had been looking on Google maps at a place called Fron, which is north of Crossgates, but maybe that is a newer development?
The place shown on the old map called Greenfield is the 'abode' given at the burial of Catherine Palfrey (buried 18 March 1843), wife of Richard C. She could be the one living in Vron cottage in the 1841 census with Ann Palfrey, who is the right age to be her daughter. Ann's age varies with the census, but probably she is the Ann whose abode was Vron cottage when she was buried in 1872 aged 85.

So, after Catherine's husband Richard C and son John died at Vron cottage in 1818, Catherine probably went on living there (with Ann, who was probably her daughter) through the 1841 census, and then went to Greenfield just before she died in 1843. I wonder who else lived at Greenfield in 1841? Does abode mean where the person lived or where they were when they died? She might just have been visiting a friend for afternoon tea and choked on a scone or had a heart attack, but was actually still living at Vron cottage. Or perhaps she'd moved there because she was ill and needed nursing. Who knows!

Ann Palfrey may be alone at Vron cottage in 1851 census, but appears to be living there with Richard D and his wife and daughter at Vronvary in 1861 and 1871. The leasehold of the cottage was in the name of Richard D's half brother, Thomas, so part of the deal for Richard D moving in might have been that Ann had a lifetime tenancy. She seems to have stayed put anyway.

It makes more sense now. Thanks!

Radnorshire / Re: Vronvary: is this a house or a village?
« on: Wednesday 28 September 16 23:23 BST (UK)  »
Thanks, Scouse Boy, that's what I figured.

The leasehold 'Vron cottage' is mentioned in the will of Richard Palfrey of Trelygoed, who died in 1807 (Call him Richard A for ease of reference). He leaves it to his son, also named Richard (1780-1853) (Call him Richard B). Richard B leaves it to his own eldest legitimate son, Thomas, and it came down at least one more generation. They lived in or near Llanbadarn Fawr in Radnor. The Vron cottage was not the residence of Richard A, but he lived nearby.

The burials that mention Vronvary as the abode of the deceased all took place at Llanbadarn Fawr. They were:
Elizabeth Palfrey (buried 29 March 1817) - I think she was Richard A's widow. Not surprising for her to move out of the main house to a smaller place as a widow.
Richard Palfrey (1748-1818) (This is Richard C) - a cousin of some sort who went bankrupt in 1815. He had earlier lived at Coedgwgan Hall nearby. He could have moved in after Elizabeth died.
Richard C's son, John (1791-1818) - who was likely living with his parents when he died aged 27, a month before his father died.
Ann Palfrey (buried 27 July 1872) - abode: Fron cottage. Not sure where she fits into the tree.
Richard Palfrey (1803-1887) (Richard D) - the illegitimate son of Richard B - abode: Fron cottage. Richard D lived in the Fron/Vron cottage for many years. In the 1861 census his address is given as Vronvary - which could refer to the house or place.

It appears that the Vron cottage was used as extra accommodation for family members. If Ann Palfrey is a sister of Richard D, it wouldn't be surprising for her to be living there at the same time.
Still not clear if it is a house or a locality. Anybody got any ideas?

I looked through the whole Llanbadarn Fawr burials book on findmypast for mentions of Palfrey,  but didn't think then to see if anyone other than Palfreys had Vronvary listed as their abode. (That might show it was a locality rather than a house.) I could check that next time I'm at the library.

Thanks for helping me think it through :)



Radnorshire / Vronvary: is this a house or a village?
« on: Wednesday 28 September 16 10:49 BST (UK)  »
In burial records, the 'abode' of a number of PALFREY ancestors is given as 'Vronvary'. Is this another name for the village Vron/Fron, or is it likely to be the name of a dwelling?
A leasehold property referred to as 'Vron cottage' is mentioned in two wills. I'm trying to work out if all those Palfreys who died at Vronvary over the years were living in the same family home, or just lived in the same village. Can anyone with local knowledge tell me?
Thanks for your help.

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