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Messages - Elaine Williams

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Armed Forces / Re: MYSTERY GAP IN UNCLE'S RAF SERVICE RECORD
« on: Friday 21 February 25 10:37 GMT (UK)  »
Hello again Ross. Apologies for my late response. It's half term and the grandchildren have taken up all my free time.

From your reply am I correct in that on posting to 97 Squadron on 5 Feb '44 Michael would've immediately been attached to the Pathfinder NTU where he remained until ? (Service Record date 29 Feb - must've been a leap year).

Thanks for the heads up but the Pathfinder5 NTU ORBs are not yet digitised. Don't suppose you know where I might be able to source a copy without going to Kew?

Finally, on his Service Record under Miscellaneous can you make out a very faint typed entry which I think partly reads: ANNUAL ? MARCH 44?

Once again I so appreciate your help with all of this.

Very best wishes

Elaine

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Armed Forces / Re: MYSTERY GAP IN UNCLE'S RAF SERVICE RECORD
« on: Tuesday 11 February 25 10:15 GMT (UK)  »
Ross, thank you so much for this. It's all beginning to become and awfully lot clearer. You mention him being attached to the Navigation Training Unit before returning to No. 97 for operations. I can't see where you have got this info about him - can you clarify please? Many thanks.

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Armed Forces / Re: MYSTERY GAP IN UNCLE'S RAF SERVICE RECORD
« on: Monday 10 February 25 15:17 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Andy and thank you for your message. Yes, I am aware of he 619 Squadron FB page and have reached out to them too. I have gone through the ORBs again for Nov/Dec 43 and have noted the following:

Nov 25/26: Lancaster 'X' JA867 last sortie flown by P/O Loney with my uncle in the crew.
Dec 2/3: A sortie to Berlin included Lancaster 'X'  JA 867 but was flown using a different crew
Dec 3/4: A sortie to Leipzig included 'X' flown by P/O Loney but my uncle wasn't part of the crew
Dec 4-16: no raids ordered
Dec 16/17: A sortie to Berlin included 'X' flown by Loney without my uncle. All crew KIA
Dec 17-19: no raids ordered
Dec 20/21: A sortie to Frankfurt
Dec 22-28: no raids ordered
Dec 29/30: A sortie to Berlin

It's clear from the ORBs that my uncle didn't join another crew with 619 Squadron following the loss of the rest of his crew on the 16/17 over Berlin. That loss would have hit him hard, wouldn't it?

It's worth noting that the ORBs detail that there was a great deal of poor weather during December which would account for the number of days/nights when there were no operational sorties.

Something that leads me to thinking my uncle had a period of leave owing is this. Yesterday his daughter sent me the very last page of the diary he kept during 1943. Dated 5 November his sign off to his fiance was 'Chin up. Will be home very soon'. Reasonable to assume that he went on leave after his last sortie in November on the 26th? However we don't know how long that period of leave was. Would it be usual to be allowed leave lasting a good few weeks before he joined up with his new crew in 97 Squadron at the beginning of February 44 and would there have been a period of training with them prior to their first sortie on 15 March?

I hope this all makes some kind of sense and would appreciate your thoughts/feedback.

Very best wishes, Elaine.

4
Armed Forces / MYSTERY GAP IN UNCLE'S RAF SERVICE RECORD
« on: Sunday 09 February 25 11:58 GMT (UK)  »
Good morning. I am hoping someone far more knowledgeable than myself can cast some light on why there might be a significant a gap in my uncle's service history. His name was Michael Johnson, service number 1802410, and he was a Flight Engineer serving with 619 Squadron from October 43 to February 44 after which he joined 97 Squadron. I have gone through all the ORBS (540 and 541) for 619 Squadron from Oct 43-Feb 44 inclusive and can find no trace of him after flying a successful mission to Berlin on 26 November 43 (JA867). He next appears in the ORBS of 97 Squadron when he flew in ND 706A to Stuttgart on 15 March 44. I then have full details of the operations he was involved with up until he was tragically KIA on 3/4 May 44. I also have full details of where his Lancaster crashed and where he now lies with the rest of the crew in St Desir war cemetery in Normandy. So, can anyone suggest what he might have been doing, and where, between the end of November 43 and the beginning of February 44. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to offer.

5
Family History Beginners Board / Neil Patrick Fenn Missing on 1921 Census
« on: Saturday 17 February 24 12:18 GMT (UK)  »
I'm not looking for look-ups, I am asking if anyone has tried anything that has helped them knock down their brick wall.

I have hit a brick wall searching on the 1921 census for my dad. His name on his birth certificate is Neil Patrick Fenn (his mother's surname) although he used the surname Johnson (his father's) as he grew up.
He was born in Chatham, Kent, England on 9 January 1919 and died in Rochester, Kent in 1992. I have found his oldest brother age 4 living with their mother at 1 Union Street, Rochester and his second oldest brother Max Fenn Johnson as a nurse child in Wimbledon in 1921 but I cannot find Dad. His father was in prison in Newcastle in 1921 (Frank Arthur Johnson). I have run out of permutations to try. It's driving me mad. Can anyone help please?

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Family History Beginners Board / Child Missing on 1921 Census
« on: Wednesday 19 January 22 09:24 GMT (UK)  »
My father Neil Patrick Fenn was born in Chatham, Kent on 9 January 1919 (he was known as Pat growing up and died in 1992 having changed his name by deedpoll from Fenn to Johnson in the 1960s). His parents were not married and his father Frank Arthur Johnson was in Newcastle prison in 1921. His mother Alice Victoria Fenn placed his older brother Max in care and I have found him on the census as a nurse child listed as Max Johnson Fenn with a family in South Wimbledon. My father was also sent away by his mother but despite an extensive search I cannot find him anywhere on the census. I am left thinking that the family who took him in either didn't put him on the census at all or used their surname rather than either Fenn or Johnson. Just to add, there was a third brother Basil who stayed with his mother and they lived at 48 St Margarets Street, Rochester. It would be amazing if anyone could help me with my brickwall.

7
Canada / Re: TRACING MY ERRANT PATERNAL GRANDFATHER IN CANADA
« on: Thursday 10 October 19 15:32 BST (UK)  »
That's pretty much what I thought too. I had hoped that I would at least find him on a passenger list but that search has come up with nothing. I guess he didnt want to be found but I am not giving up that easily.

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Canada / Re: TRACING MY ERRANT PATERNAL GRANDFATHER IN CANADA
« on: Thursday 10 October 19 14:51 BST (UK)  »
It was always accepted by family as told by my grandmother Alice Victoria whose surname was Fenn.

9
Canada / TRACING MY ERRANT PATERNAL GRANDFATHER IN CANADA
« on: Thursday 10 October 19 13:51 BST (UK)  »
I really could do with some help in tracing my paternal grandfather Francis (Frank) Arthur Johnson, who was born on 26 December 1877 in Leek, Staffordshire, England. He 'did a runner' to Canada following a scandal at his place of work; a major department store in London (possibly Selfridges or Liberty) where he was a boot buyer. He fathered four sons out of wedlock with my paternal grandmother Alice Victoria Johnson whilst also having a legal wife and two daughters. His youngest child, my Uncle Michael, was born in Rochester, Kent on 14 Dec 1922 so this 'runner' to Canada must have been after Michael was conceived in Feb/March of that year. I have tried everything on Find My Past, Ancestry and Family Search to find him. I can't find him on any passenger lists, either into the US or Canada so have hit a brick wall. Incidentally there are several listings of a Frank Johnson in and out of New York at that time but it isn't my grandfather as this other Frank had a wife in Grimsby and he was a Horseman working the trans-Atlantic route. I'm finding it it really hard to find my way around Canadian records so would really appreciate any help, support or advice any more experienced members could give me. Thanks so much.


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