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Messages - MattD30

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London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Friday 31 December 21 14:07 GMT (UK)  »
Martha Elizabeth Kemp - 1910 - Mile End Old Town - Age 73 [Born 1837] - Vol 1C Page 206

This looks like the same Martha/Elizabeth. I can't see a death registration for an Elizabeth Martha Kemp. And Maddys' post for Martha and William Micklefield in the 1871 census also named her as Elizabeth.

East London Observer
18 Jun 1910
page 7, column 5
Limehouse Widow's Dog Bite
- At an inquest on Saturday,
- held at Stepney,
- by Mr Wynne Baxter, the East London coroner,
- on Elizabeth Martha Kemp,
- aged 73, widow,
- late of Emmott Street, Limehouse,
- it was stated that some time ago
- she was bitten by a dog
- The wound was treated, and healed up,
- but the woman thought that she would contract hydrophobia
- On Wednesday she was found dead in bed
- Medical evidence showed that death as due to cerebral hemorrhage
- The bite had nothing to do with the death,
- except so far that it gave the deceased a great shock

Now that does look interesting. I'll see if I can find any more about this inquest in other papers.

Maybe she wasn't always known as Martha, perhaps she preferred Elizabeth. Or did she use Elizabeth as her first name to hide her identity? Could it be that the reason I can't find, and indeed none else has yet found, a marriage for her to William Micklefield, is because it took place when she was married to Joseph?? Just a thought but it is something I encountered before.

Then again it may be that she didn't alway use Martha or sometimes called herself Elizabeth Martha rather than Martha Elizabeth. My ancestor Morris Edwin Gravett is recorded on his two marriage certificates, and on the birth and marriage certificates as Morris Edwin, Maurice, Morris, and even Edward on one record and on a census. As for my nan, her name was Constance Galdys Rook, but on her marriage certificate she called herself Mary Constance Rook! We have no idea why she did this but we know it's the correct marriage as we've identified the witnesses and made contact with descentants of them.

On the other hand perhaps there's no mystery or puzzle here at all and she simply didn't always use both first names. I have two first names myself mostly only use the first, even though I prefer my middle name.

I'll order both death certificates and hopefully that will add some more info to the puzzle.

Thank again for the info about the inquest, I'm off to hunt it down....

Best Wishes and Happy New Year

London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Thursday 30 December 21 21:28 GMT (UK)  »
I've done some more digging today to try and track down the marriage between Martha Elizabeth Murray [nee Dyke] and William Micklefield, but so far I've had no luck at all with that.

What I have found however are deaths for both Martha and her third husband Robert George Kemp.

Robert George Kemp - 1906 - Mile End Old Town - Age 64 [Born 1842] - Vol 1C Page 278

Martha Elizabeth Kemp - 1910 - Mile End Old Town - Age 73 [Born 1837] - Vol 1C Page 206

Both from England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 on Findmypast

Assuming the age here is pretty accurate I think this probably narrows Martha's year of birth down to around 1835-1837

So at least I now know when Martha died, I just hope I can pin down her birth/christening as well.


London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Wednesday 29 December 21 12:09 GMT (UK)  »
They are in St George in th eEast in 1871:

William MICKLEFIELD  52  (shoe finisher)
Elizabeth                        39  (dealer, Stepney)
Joseph                           16
Emma                             14
Elizabeth                          8
RG10/536/29 pg 3

Elizabeth has mmn DYKE

William MICKLEFIELD is unmarried in 1861 at Limehouse.
RG9/284/173 pg36

I see that Joseph and Emma were actually registered as MURRAY:
Joseph Charles Pinkenny MURRAY 1855 Stepney, mmn DYKE
Emma Esther MURRAY 1857 Stepney mmn DYKE

Now that's interesting and defintely proves that the Martha Elizabeth Micklefield who marred Robert is the same person as my ancestor.

Emma Esther Murray listed here is my 2x great grandmother and I have been in contact with descendants of her and also descendants of her brother Joseph Charles. I am lucky enough to have photos of both given to me my relatives.

This would also explain why I can't find Martha or her children in the 1871 census, I was looking for the wrong name! I have her in the 1861 census when she is simply recorded as "Elizabeth Murray" widow. She is lodging at 1 Church Street, Stepney along with her daughter Emma age 3. Emma's age fits with her date of birth [she was born 20 Sep 1857 at 12 Dean Street, Shadwell and christened 31 Jul 1859 at Shadwell]. Her place of birth is shown in this census as Stepney but on all other records I have it is shown as Shadwell. She married Florence Donovan in Feb 1880 at the church of St John the Evangelist in the parish of St George in the East. At the time of the 1911 census they are living in Old Gravel Lane which is where I know the Donovan family lived for a good time after that.

Anyhow thanks again for that added info. I will see if I can track down Martha and William's marriage.


London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Wednesday 29 December 21 11:47 GMT (UK)  »
GRO  Index deaths

James's wife Martha "Henson" Dyke age 46 death recorded J Quarter Stepney Vol 02 page 309

GRO Index births

Alfred John Dyke birth registered Stepney 1841 Vol 02 page 453 mother's maiden name Ryale.

So he definately belongs on your tree.

Thanks for those. I have Martha's burial record not her death date, although I thought I had her death certificate. She was buried at Mile End Old Town on 5 April 1846 age 46 which ties in with the June Qtr death record.

As for Alfred, I had no idea he had the middle name John as I have not done much research on him. It is interesting that Martha's name is spelt Ryale here as that's a variation I've not come across so far. Spellings I have encountered include Ryall, Ryal, Riall, Riell, Rile, and in one transcription Royal [which I think was mistranscribed].


London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Wednesday 29 December 21 11:36 GMT (UK)  »
Narcissus seems to have adopted the name 'Henry' instead so he may be the witness at Henrietta's marriage.

Debra  :D

Yes I've noticed that as well. I have his marriage certificate which shows him as Narcissus Hewson Henry Dyke. I think that's a lovely name myself.

Unfortunately I don't yet know when he died but he shouldn't be hard to trace with a name like that.


London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Wednesday 29 December 21 11:32 GMT (UK)  »
I have recently discovered that on Georgianna's chirstening from 1826 he is recorded as a cook. Her full name seem to be Geogianna Laura Dyke and I am questioning her place in the tree.

Your James did have a daughter named Georgiana, but she is not the Georgiana Laura who was baptised with the father who was a cook.

No, they are a different family, parents are (James) Vincent DYKE and Martha GRAHAM.  They can be found together in 1841 and mother and daughter are together in 1851.  That Georgiana married John ELLIS in 1843.

Debra  :D

Henrietta Augusta Dyke married Basil Hunt in 1859. I have their marriage certificate and the witnesses to this were Henry Dyke [who I have not identified] and Martha Elizabeth Dyke.

The female witness was Margaret Elizabeth DYKE, not Martha.  Martha was already married by then.

Debra  :D

Hi Debra

I did always wonder about that christening for Georgianna but I hadn't actually spotted the occupation of that James until I looked at it again this week lol!

As for the witness on Henrietta's marriage, you are quite correct, it was Margaret and not Martha Elizabeth lol! I wrote the message late at night and didn't have my copies of the certificates etc to hand. I thought I had made an error on my tree as I have her as "Margaret Elizabeth" on that.

Sorry for the mix up.


London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Re: Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Wednesday 29 December 21 02:17 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all

Thanks for all the info, some of which conflicts with what I have but then again I do have a few questions about one or two people in this list. Here's what I have about Martha Elizabeth Dyke's siblings [and parents].

Her parents, James married Martha Huson Ryall [also spelt Martha Hewson Ryall] in East Lydford, Somerset in 1824. Both were born c1800 [calculated from the 1841 and 1851 census]. James' ancestry is something I am having to look at again as I have recently discovered I have two different dates for him. However that is something I won't go into here, yet.

From what I know James and Martha Dyke [parents of Martha Elizabeth Dyke] had the following 9 children:

James Dyke - christned 14 Feb 1825 East Lydford, Somerset
John Ryall Dyke - christened 14 Feb 1815 East Lydford, Somerset
Alfred Hewson Dyke - christened 7 Apr 1828 East Lydford, Somerset [Died 1831, Mile End Old Town]
Narcissus Hewson Henry Dyke [also recorded as just Narcissus Huson Dyke on occassions] - christened 28 Jan 1829 East Lydford, Somerset
Georgianna Dyke - born c1831 Stepney, Middlesex
Henrietta Augusta Dyke - born c1833 Stepney, Middlesex
Martha Elizabeth Dyke - born 1835 [based on age at marriage and on census returns]
Frederick Edward Dyke - born 1840 Stepney, Middlesex
Alfred Dyke - born 1841 Stepney, Middlesex

As you can see, a lot of these children had the middle name "Huson" or "Hewson". This was Martha's middle name, her full name being Martha Hewson Ryall. She was the daughter of Rev Narcissus Ryall of East Lydford, and Frances Durnford. The name "Narcissus" was carried through to her son Narcissus Hewson Henry Dyke.

Ok bac to her siblings. I know when most of them died and who most married. Here is what I know so far:

Henrietta Augusta Dyke married Basil Hunt in 1859. I have their marriage certificate and the witnesses to this were Henry Dyke [who I have not identified] and Martha Elizabeth Dyke.

Narcissus Hewson Henry Dyke [recorded in some records as just Narcissus Huson Dyke] married Mary Ann Steward [nee Abbott] in 1864 in Shoreditch. The witnesses here were Basil Hunt, and Henrietta Hunt [most likely his sister Henrietta Augusta who married Basil in 1859]

Martha Elizabeth Dyke [my ancestor] married Joseph Pinkney Murray on 17 Apr 1854 in Bethnal Green. He died in 1860 and I have recently discovered that Martha may, only may, have been married again after this, twice.

Frederick Edward Dyke married twice. First to Elizabeth Fidgen [nee Fordham] in 1882 at Stepney, and then in 1888 to Alice Browning at Hackney.

James Dyke was a carpenter by trade and this is recorded on all the records I have that mention him [including the possible third marriage for Martha]. except on the christening for Alfred in he is described as a "Gent" and although the christening took place in East Lydford, the place of residence was given as "West Lydford" so that Alfred may need to be excluded from the tree. Jame's occupation is also given as carpenter on the christening of Narcissus Huson Dyke in 1829 and again the family seem to be residing in West Lydford. Why James was described as a "Gent" in the 1828 christening and as a carpenter in the 1829 christening and in all other christenings I have for his children I am not sure. I have recently discovered that on Georgianna's chirstening from 1826 he is recorded as a cook. Her full name seem to be Geogianna Laura Dyke and I am questioning her place in the tree. Then again the only record I can find in the 1841 census that fits with my Martha Elizabeth Dyke's details [approx year of birth and name and occupation of father] is the one given in my first post here with Georgianna as her sister. If that's not the family then where are they in 1841 and indeed 1851? It would definitely muck up a big part of my tree lol!

I have James on the 1851 census with the following details

Swan Court, Tower Hamlets

James Dyke - age 50 - Head - Carpenter
Georgianna Dyke - age 20 - recorded as his wife but this is clearly an error and should be daughter - Needlework from Home
Henrietta Dyke - age 17
Frederick Dyke - age 12

Georgianna, Henrietta and Frederick are all born in Stepney according to this census.

So far I can't find Martha Elizabeth or any of the other siblings in the 1851 census and as previously stated I have only found one candidate in the 1841 census.

In the 1861 census James Dyke is recorded as a widower and is on his own lodging with another family. I don't have the details here but I can post those tomorrow. He appears to have died at Bromley Sick Assylum on 13 April 1873 aged 73.

Ok I will stop here as it is 2.00am here in the UK lol! I will be very grateful if anyone can either locate Martha's christening or locate her and her family in the 1851 census [she isn't with her father James who is.

More details tomorrow [and probably more headache for me lol!]

Thanks again and best wishes to all

London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / Martha Elizabeth Dyke c1830-1836
« on: Tuesday 28 December 21 21:38 GMT (UK)  »
Is anyone here able to locate a christening for Martha Elizabeth Dyke in the Stepney or possibly Limehouse area of London?

Martha Elizabeth Dyke was the daughter of James Dyke and Martha Huson Ryall. She married Joseph Pinkney Murray in 1854 when she is described as a "minor". I have found her on the 1841 census along with her parents and siblings. Her age here is given as 7 making her born c1834. Her siblings were Narcissus [age 12], Georgianna [age 10], Henrietta [age 8], Frederick [age 4] and Alfred [age 1 month].

I have James, Georgianna, Henrietta and Frederick on the 1851 census but I can't find Martha anywhere yet.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Many Thanks

Kent / Re: John Austen 1418-1471
« on: Friday 26 November 21 12:50 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Matt

 I also share the Dennes, as I have Richard Austin b 1512 married to Agnes Denne b 1518.

I have uncorroborated links back to Robert Deene b circa 1000, in a reasonable chain ie no serious anomalies.

Regards, John

Although very widely copied around, we have found no ** evidence ** that Richard Austen's wife Agnes was Agnes Denne. There are some hints, no more, in Robert Denne's will and a completely unsupported and unsourced statement in Robert Sewell's work

The identification of Agnes Denne as Richard Austen's wife is, at best, speculative.

Hello again!

Yes I agree with you about Richard Austen's wife. I have seen her name given as "Agnes", "Agnes Denne", "Agnes/Anne" so I agree we can't be sure of her surname. We can, however, be certain that her first name was Agnes though.

For me this isn't a big problem however, as I connect to the Denne family through other lines [I have about 4 Denne family connections!] and also connect to the Austens via two different branches.

Again leave this with me and I will update you further we more info later after work.

All the best

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