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Messages - StephenA6

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10
Ayrshire / Re: Father of James White b c1852 d 1919
« on: Saturday 10 April 21 11:38 BST (UK)  »
Hi Neale. Yes thats one of the data points I listed. The birth record you found corroborates my 2xgg's  death certificate but conflicts with the marriage certificate and census records.  Thanks


11
Ayrshire / Father of James White b c1852 d 1919
« on: Saturday 10 April 21 11:30 BST (UK)  »
Hi all. Hoping someone can help me with resolving this.

I am researching my 2 x Great Grandfather, James White. From various records I have I know that

  • he was born in Irvine in c1853
  • his mother was Janet Taylor
  • he married Helen (Ellen) Ritchie in Dalry on 25/6/1875
  • he was a miner who moved from Dalry to Bellshill in the 1890s
  • he died in Bellshill in 1919

All of the above can be corroborated from the marriage and death certificates and census records.

So far so good ... the problem however is in identifying his father
  • his marriage certificate from 1875  lists his father as ROBERT White (deceased), a GAS WORKER.
  • his death certificate from 1919 lists his father as JAMES White (deceased) , a FARMER

To further complicate, I can find
  • a plausible 1861 census record showing James (born c1853 Irvine) with father ROBERT and mother Janet White
  • a plausible 1871 census record showing James (born c1853 Irvine) with mother Janet White but no father ... which ties to the marriage certificate where ROBERT was deceased
  • a marriage certificate from 1849 for ROBERT White and Janet Taylor ... but none for James White and Janet Taylor
  • a birth  certificate for James White b1852 in Irvine to father JAMES White and mother Janet Tayor

Really confused by the conflicting records ... if it was just the death record that was out of sync I would probably conclude that the person registering the death had made a mistake. But there are multiple records pointing to either James as father or Robert as father.

Anyone able to help ?

Incidentally when I trace back to ROBERT White, I can see he has an older brother called JAMES, albeit he was married and has children with someone else. The brother though was a miner not a farmer.





12
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Wednesday 24 February 21 10:27 GMT (UK)  »
Thats phenomenal. Thank you ladyhawk and scotsmum. I'm just plugging into ancestry and will check for other connections. Would like to see if i can trace Martha between 1895 and 1919 (ie between Jessie and Hilda's birth) .. at the moment thats a blank. Also if I can, going to try to work out when she hooked up with Abraham Cooper.

Seems quite a coincidence that both David and Martha both moved to the same county and within 22 miles of each other !


Completing the story .. I mentioned in my initial post that Martha and David had a son, William (b1891). I eventually managed to piece together the back story. I found his daughter Martha Russell Findlay on Scotlandspeople and worked way back.

 - In 1901 after the family separated he moved in with his uncle's family (David's brother)
- in 1904 he applied to the poorhouse or clothing and boots. the application mentioned his father had deserted him and he was offered poorhouse
- In 1908 he married Clara Elizabeth Lack (b1887 Bilston, Staffordshire). Clara's family had relocated to Scotland
- In 1926 aged 38 he died in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary of  a combination of appendicitis , peritonitis and heart failure,   

Definitely one of the more "difficult to unravel"  ancestor stories in my family tree  (and only rivalled by an ancestor who mysteriously changed the family's name in the mid 1800s)

Will let you know if I discover more but thanks again for your help.

13
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Wednesday 24 February 21 10:26 GMT (UK)  »
Thats phenomenal. Thank you ladyhawk and scotsmum. I'm just plugging into ancestry and will check for other connections. Would like to see if i can trace Martha between 1895 and 1919 (ie between Jessie and Hilda's birth) .. at the moment thats a blank. Also if I can, going to try to work out when she hooked up with Abraham Cooper.


Completing the story .. I mentioned in my initial post that Martha and David had a son, William (b1891). I eventually managed to piece together the back story. I found his daughter Martha Russell Findlay on Scotlandspeople and worked way back.

Bit of a sad story ..

 - In 1901 he moved in with his uncle's family (David's brother)
- in 1904 he applied to the poorhouse or clothing and boots. the application mentioned his father had deserted him. He was offered poorhouse
- In 1908 he married Clara Elizabeth Lack (b1887 Bilston, Staffordshire). Clara's family had relocated to Scotland
- In 1926 aged 38 he died of a mix of appendicitis, peritonitis and a heart attack 

Definitely one of the richer ancestor stories in my family tree and one that had me stumped for a sign time (and only rivalled by an ancestor who mysteriously changed the family's name in the mid 1800s)

Thanks again for your help.

14
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Wednesday 24 February 21 10:25 GMT (UK)  »
Thats phenomenal. Thank you ladyhawk and scotsmum. I'm just plugging into ancestry and will check for other connections. Would like to see if i can trace Martha between 1895 and 1919 (ie between Jessie and Hilda's birth) .. at the moment thats a blank. Also if I can, going to try to work out when she hooked up with Abraham Cooper.


Completing the story .. I mentioned in my initial post that Martha and David had a son, William (b1891). I eventually managed to piece together the back story. I found his daughter Martha Russell Findlay on Scotlandspeople.

Bit of a sad story ..

 - In 1901 he moved in with his uncle's family (David's brother)
- in 1904 he applied to the poorhouse or clothing and boots. the application mentioned his father had deserted him. He was offered poorhouse
- In 1908 he married Clara Elizabeth Lack (b1887 Bilston, Staffordshire). Clara's family had relocated to Scotland
- In 1926 aged 38 he died of a mix of appendicitis, peritonitis and a heart attack 

Definitely one of the richer ancestor stories in my family tree and one that had me stumped for a sign time (and only rivalled by an ancestor who mysteriously changed the family's name in the mid 1800s)

Thanks again for your help.

15
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 14:54 GMT (UK)  »
T
StephenA6 -  Do you think we have found the correct Martha & David Findlay?
 we were posting at the same time  :)

Yes it seems likely. Will do more investigation this evening. Thank you for your help.

Do you know how I get access to English birth / death certificates ? don't think there is a scotlandspeople equivalent

16
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 14:41 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you Ladyhawke. I suspect you may have cracked it.

Through Ancestry I have access to a copy of the 1939 register and can see Martha Findlay's data of birth is the same as "my" Martha Russell (18th July 1872) so the odds of a match must be high.

Confused though by Hilda's records .. insofar as it records different fathers for baptism (Abraham) and marriage (David). David's inclusion is quite odd given that, if the other records are correct, he was already living with and procreating with someone else by 1911.

I'l investigate more this evening when i'm back in front of a screen.

17
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 11:27 GMT (UK)  »
Moved it on a little overnight. I have now found traced the son William Russell ... found a daughter Martha Russell Findlay which led me to him.

He died in 1928 and both of his parents are mentioned on his death certificate and neither are marked as deceased.

What a conundrum

18
Lanarkshire / Re: Martha Russell
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 09:20 GMT (UK)  »
Hi wivenhoe

Martha’s father is my greatx2 grandfather, her brother David Russell is my great grandfather.

My interest is in Martha’s disappearance rather than the Findlays.

Thanks

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