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Messages - DudelsackHogg

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Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Ancestry DNA v My Heritage DNA
« on: Saturday 04 September 21 10:05 BST (UK)  »
Itís certainly interesting how the ethnicity breakdown is calculated. Perhaps from a historical view point there is some basis for their calculation, Viking influence on Scotland etc.
Iím not sure I agree with the ĎCeltsí being categorised together on MyHeritage, Ancestry seems to be better for this analysis .

Iím glad I did the Ancestry one first. It pretty much confirmed my paper trail via matches. MyHeritage would have me thinking my Granny had an affair with a Norwegian sailor.
I appreciate it is just estimates based on their sample database but itís left me feeling very reluctant to try the additional services they offer. Also, a lot of the connections I have seem to have really small trees, some just three people. I donít understand why people took the dna test in the first place, I hope itís not for their ethnicity breakdown. :) It seems like it will be a lot of work to try and figure out distant relatives. I wish they had a trial but anyway. Iím glad I did it as it provides a different viewpoint.
Going to upload to some of the other DNA sites and see what they say. Maybe gedmatch and livingdna but still exploring. Any recommendations?

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Ancestry DNA v My Heritage DNA
« on: Friday 03 September 21 16:02 BST (UK)  »
I got my MyHeritage results back today. I tested both with MyHeritage and Ancestry.

I too was incredibly surprised at how different the results are.


Irish, Scottish and Welsh 38.5%
Scandinavian 27.1%
English 26.3%
East European 4.5%
Finnish 3.6%


Scotland 87%
England and Northwestern Europe 10%
Ireland 3%


I would say Ancestry seems to reflect my tree for the last couple of hundred years.

Angus (Forfarshire) / Re: Hutchisons in Montrose (late C18th)
« on: Wednesday 01 September 21 22:33 BST (UK)  »
There are quite a few Hutcheon entries for Montrose. No WilliamĎs, but perhaps siblings?

Intriguingly there is one with no first name recorded.

HUTCHEON ---- Parents: GEORGE HUTCHEON/MARGT. GAIRDEN Sex: M Date: 15/09/1794 312/ 50 145 Montrose

United States of America / Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« on: Friday 27 August 21 11:16 BST (UK)  »
Hi everyone. I wanted to thank you all again for your input and contributions, really wonderful.

I am still finding the American records tricky to navigate. The American census entries are great, so much more information recorded.

My DNA results came through and they do seem to confirm that I am related to the John Hogg who was in Newcastle before running off to New York. The marriage entry for John Hogg and Susie Bachmann really makes me think it is the same John Hogg.

I have been going over again all your contributions and putting all the pieces together. I am confused here by the birth dates of Florence and Alberta.

Susan Abrams and Albert Bachman had at least 3 daughters. Susie Matilda b 24 Jul 1880, Alberta b about 1881, and Florence, b about 1883.

Death of daughter Florence (married Henry Ziegler 27 October 1902) gives birth date of 14 June 1883, she died 30 July 1921. No children.

Alberta Bachman Carstens
Birth    18 Mar 1883 New York City, New York
Father:   Albert G Bachman Mother:   Susan J Abrams
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007

The second two entries have Florence being born on the 14th June 1883 and Alberta on the 18th of March 1883. Clearly these records are conflicting or suggest a mix up. Am I mistaken, did I miss a connection? You guys were so fast for me I had a little trouble following along, still making sense of it all.  :)

I am currently going through my DNA matches, I do have quite a lot of hits in America and Iím trying to connect some dots.

Thanks again.

A rather significant breakthrough.

I got an email this morning to say my Ancestry DNA test had been evaluated and is ready.

I am still looking at the results and trying to get my head around all the matches and how it all works.
BUT!! I do have a match.

I match to a Mr Davidson whoís Great-grandfather is recorded as William Waldie Davidson. The match is 43cM / 1 segment. Still figuring out the cM rating. I would love to get my Dad tested and see where that leads.

Assuming he has the correct information on his tree, then I think I can be fairly confident in saying that Newcastle John is indeed the son of William Hogg and Mary Waldie.

Now trying to find a connection to New York.

Thanks for all your replies and input.

Iíve been thinking about John being being described as a tobacconist in 1884 in Kelso. I would imagine that after the divorce scandal he would have lost his employment as a missionary.

In such a situation it would seem logical that he would return home or to family. Iíve been looking through the Valuation Rolls for 1884 in Kelso for tobacconists. I think John would not have set up on his own and would be working for family or friends.

The tobacconists I found in Kelso in 1884 are:

Shop.4 Bridge Street, Occupier: William Dames, tobacconist
Shop, room, and saloon. 40 Bridge Street, Occupier: Peter Hume, tobacconist
House and shop. 1 & 3 Wood Market, Occupier: Richard White, tobacconist

Richard White is at Wood Market 1871-1886
William Dames is only at Bridge Street in 1884.
Peter Hume is at 40 Bridge Street 1883-1885

In 1886 the occupiers are:

Shop, 4 Bridge Street. Occupier: Thomas Dames, tobacconist
Shop, room, and saloon. 40 Bridge Street. Occupier: Mrs Elizabeth Shiel, tobacconist
House and shop. 1 & 3 Wood Market, Occupier: Thomas Tophan

The Dames are interesting. I checked the census and the occupation of the father Thomas Dames (I think itís likely the sons in the shop) jumped out at me. A cattle dealer.  Thomas Dames also appears on the Kelso prison registers 1847, 1852 and 1862.

As for the Hoggís:

Assuming that John Hogg is the son of William Hogg and Mary Waldie.

Then his father William is at 63 Horsemarket and is the occupier of various land.
His brother Thomas is living at 72-74 Roxburgh street:

Shop, Garret, etc 74 & 72 Roxburgh Street. Occupier: Thomas Hogg, gardener

What the shop sells is unclear. On the 1891 census heís described as a gardener and grocer.

And his brother James is in Rose Lane.

House, Rose Lane Occupier: James Hogg, labourer.

Some of the other Hoggís that appear in the Valuation Rolls with shops:

House, shop, and cellars, 13 Square, Proprietor: John Hogg , grocer
Shop, 73 Roxburgh Street Occupier: Edward Hogg, grocer

The grocer John Hogg according to the 1871 census is aged 37, married to Jane Black Hogg and has four sons Robert (4), Charles (3), John (1) and William (1 mo). As an alternative connection to John, heís too young to be the father (and not a cattle dealer) and unlikely to be a brother unless there was a strict following of naming conventions.

Edward is proving trickier to pinpoint as heís there between the censuses. I see him at 73 Roxburgh Street 1884-1886, 1887 House 2 Winchester Row. Then there is an Edward Hogg at 20 Wood Market 1903-1905.

The Valuation Rolls have been really useful here. I also found out William Hogg - part of the land heís farming - the proprietor is listed as ĎThe trustees of the late John Waldie, per Robson & Smith Solicitors, Kelsoí. Itís always been a bit of mystery how from 1871 - 1881 he goes from a Ďgardenerí to a Ďfarmer, farming 40 acresí so that entry has proved incredibly informative and something I need to investigate further.

I didnít know these records were on family search. Such a great resource. I suppose the nationality record is likely correct and we can probably dismiss that entry.

Is findmypast better for passenger list record sets?

Iíd previously bookmarked this entry on Ancestry as a possible passenger list for John.

There is, however, very little information to make a conclusive match. Iíd marked it to refer back to, hoping that one of the other passenger names would click. If that entry is correct then it makes it increasingly likely that there are two Johns.

I also just came across this site from the library of Congress which has quite a lot of American newspapers online.

And this blog post which lists and links to an amazing number of newspapers that were published in New York.

Going to take me quite a while to go through that information. I thought these might be a useful resource for others, if not already known.

I donít have a subscription for newspapers to check all the links on the other discussion, I wanted to start the trial when Iím back and have more time to make the most of the trial period

Twins! Of course they are, this story just gets wilder.

George Hogg is interesting, as far as I know William Hogg and Mary Waldie did not have a son called George. I wonder if there is a connection.

Thinking about the latest find.
Itís interesting that Jean is described as a widow on the Ayre marriage certificate and the announcement in the paper with the Ďlate missionary William Davidsoní as the father. Is this all about keeping up appearances or was jean married and widowed between the years 1884- 1896? I searched but so far have found nothing.

Iím also thinking about the evidence of Newcastle John Hogg being connected to my line. The census only lists Scotland as the place of birth and itís really the names William Waldie, the first name Mary and his age that give credence to John being the son of Mary and William. I looked at the 1851 census for alternative infant John Hoggís in Scotland. Surprisingly, there are not too many with the father listed as John and with an agricultural occupation. I will investigate them better when Iím back properly in the online world and not looking at things on a small screen. Itís also interesting that Newcastle John is in Kelso 1884, his father and most of the rest were also in Kelso at this time. No tobacconists though.

United States of America / Re: John Hogg and Susie Backman - New York 1884
« on: Sunday 15 August 21 23:03 BST (UK)  »
Thank you for all your work here, I havenít had the time yet to go through all your findings. Hopefully Iíll have some time in the next few days to put together a tree and try and make sense of everything and to see what else I can find out.

I started looking at John Hogg as Iíve ordered a dna kit, still waiting for the results, and I wanted to build out my tree to see if it could help narrow down Johnís grandfather. John has been fascinating and it will be interesting to see if I get some American hits and where that leads.

I really do appreciate all your work and Iím sorry Iíve been a little absent in this discussion board. I probably chose the wrong time to start the discussion - holidays, family time and a break from lockdown life. Thanks again.

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