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Messages - DudelsackHogg

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73
Roxburghshire / Re: Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Wednesday 21 October 20 13:34 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for that. I hope they gave you your 6 credits back for reporting the error.

Fantastic to see the actual record.

74
Roxburghshire / Re: Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Wednesday 21 October 20 08:19 BST (UK)  »
Elisabeth Hogg found.

She married a Henry Taylor - she appears in the 1841 Census as Betsy Taylor
Died 13.05.1872 - Age 60
Death certificate confirms parents as Andrew Hogg (Land Steward) and Elisabeth Davidson

So I can now say for certain that the Elizabeth Hogg at the Boathouse is not the daughter of Andrew.

Still looking at the Boathouse case and their trees.

75
Roxburghshire / Re: Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Wednesday 21 October 20 06:45 BST (UK)  »
Yes, the more I look at the names in the article it looks less likely there is a direct connection.

How I got to this article was searching for Elisabeth Hogg (1810).
I know what happened to William (1809) and Elspeth (1813) but not Elisabeth.

Searching for her led me to the 1841 Census that has an Elizabeth Hogg living at the Boathouse. The dates roughly worked but as Forfarian pointed out the 1841 census dates are rounded down so the dates probably donít tie in so well as I first thought.

In all likelihood she married and that is the reason I canít find her easily. A positive, is that I can eliminate that connection, and focus elsewhere.

I think itís a case of wanting a good story to tell, and to have a connection to it. Although, I would imagine that it was a very big story at the time, especially for my relatives living down the street and sharing the same name.

Iím really enjoying this journey. When things click together itís great, itís a detective mystery and really quite addictive.

Being able to put a face to this story is wonderful, thanks for posting the photographs. It really brings things to life. Tommy looks like quite a distinctive character.

I'm really impressed with the response from everyone. Thank you.

Iíll continue to piece the puzzle together.

76
Roxburghshire / Re: Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Tuesday 20 October 20 18:51 BST (UK)  »
Forfarian.

Thank you so much for looking up the baptism record. I really can't thank you enough. If I can return the favour and look something up for you I'd be more than happy to.

I certainly don't want to make assumptions, which is why this missing record was bugging me.

Thank you also for the extra information. I probably should also read the beginners board thoroughly-not just skim it.

Have a good night everyone.

77
Roxburghshire / Re: Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Tuesday 20 October 20 16:59 BST (UK)  »
Fantastic. Good work.

So it would seem that Elizabeth Hogg from the 1841 Census is not the one giving evidence at the trial.
Elizabeth Hogg/Yeoman (the spelling from the newspaper) was born around 1831.

I'm really glad I posted here.

78
Roxburghshire / Re: Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Tuesday 20 October 20 16:17 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for the fast reply. And for the links - I haven't heard of FreeCEN, found the entry. Great resource and that answers that question.

I did find a death certificate that matches but it didn't get me much further.

District of Jedburgh in the county of Roxburgh
Thomas Hogg
29th September 1877 - age 74 years.
Name of father Thomas Hogg - Shepherd
Name of mother Margaret Hogg (Young)
Informant John Neil (difficult to read - could even be Reid ) - Nephew in law

Thomas Hogg and Margaret Young were married in Eckford 16.02.1798

On a side note - after every entry on that List of Marriages 1797 page it says "Given to the poor". Does anyone know what that means? I assume the Church suggests a donation.


Thanks again.

79
Roxburghshire / Hogg's and Murder Trial of Thomas Hogg 1851
« on: Tuesday 20 October 20 14:04 BST (UK)  »
First post here. Great website with lots of links for me to follow up. So thank you.

I seem to be from the black sheep side of the Hogg family. On one side there is the Poets, Reverends, Majors etc and on my side the poachers, alcoholics and murder suspects. Well.

I have be using Ancestry, FindMyPast and Scotlandís People to piece together my tree but I have hit a wall. I am new to this and would appreciate your help.

I came across a couple of news articles about a murder trial and I was hoping it might lead to some more information regarding my family.


1851 Trial

Articles from the:

Kelso Chronicle 13 June 1851 -page 6 and 7
Edinburgh Evening Courant 10 June 1851


Trial of Thomas Hogg for Murder.
The High Court of Justiciary, Edinburgh

Thomas Hogg - Accused
Agnes Hogg (Laidlaw) - Victim

ďThomas Hogg was placed at the bar charged with the crime, in so far as (in terms of the indictment) on the 12th day of February 1851, in or near the house called the Boat-House, in the parish and county of Roxburgh, then occupied by him, he did wickedly and feloniously attack and assault the now deceased Agnes Laidlaw or Hogg, his wife, and did with his hands, or with some kind of ligature, violently compress the throat, or did press it against some piece of furniture, or other hard substance to the prosecutor unknown, and did thus strangle and suffocate the said Agnes Laidlaw or Hogg, in consequence whereof she soon thereafter died, and was thus murdered by the said Thomas Hogg.
The prisoner pleaded not guilty; and a Jury having been empanelled, the case went to trial.Ē

Three day drinking binge. Agnes fracture of the larynx, suggested strangulation. Accused admits to hitting his wife on occasion.

Found not guilty.

Key names that appear in the article. Witnesses who gave evidence:


Elizabeth Hogg or Yeoman - Also referred to Betty Yeoman (Hogg) and Betsy  - First cousin of the accused. Also lives adjoining the Boathouse - next door.
Betsy Legget - 12 years of age - niece of the prisoner - has lived in the house since she was 5
Grace Laidlaw - sister of the deceased. Servant at Spylaw.
John Hogg - joiner in Roxburgh - Am a relation of the accused.

I have pdfís of both articles if anyone wants me to send them. The Kelso Chronicle is a bit more balanced and the Edinburgh Evening Courant reads like Thomas got away with murder.



My possible connection to this story.


Andrew Hogg 29.10.1776 - (unverified - not found on Scotlands people)

Ancestry gives me the following information for Andrew Hogg:
Birth date: 29.10.1776
Baptism Date: 01.12.1776
Baptism place: Associate Congregation OR Free Church Jedburgh, Roxburgh
Father: Andrew Hogg
Mother: Elspeth Thomson
FHL Film number: 559522
Reference ID: 2:18NPW7M

I cannot find him on Scotlands people. How accurate is the Ancestry information? And how can I follow this up and verify the information given.

Married:

Elisabeth Davidson 30.07.1777 (birth date assumption based on only record on Scotlandís people)

They had 3 Children:

William Hogg b 20.06.1809 d 25.02.1890 (my direct descendant)
Elisabeth Hogg b 26.11.1810
Elspeth Hogg b 18.01.1813 d 29.04.1896



The 1841 Census
House Name: Boathouse

Janet Hogg 80 Birth year 1761 Roxburghshire Sp dealer
Thomas Hogg 36 Birth year 1805 Roxburghshire Labourer
Elizabeth Hogg 30 Birth year 1811 Roxburghshire F Servant
(No relationships listed)


Title Trial papers relating to Thomas Hogg
Name Thomas Hogg
Role Accused
Designation married
Age 49
Approx Birth Year 1802
Crime Murder
Crime Location the "Boathouse", Roxburgh
Trial Date 16 April 1851
Trial Location Jedburgh
Verdict Not called
NRS Reference JC26/1851/184
Notes
Case remitted to the High Court, Edinburgh (see JC26/1851/547).


I assume the Thomas in 1841 census is the same as the accused. I have not found a marriage Thomas Hogg/Agnes Laidlaw. I could buy a copy of the trial papers and minutes but it costs £45.00. Does anyone have experience purchasing such information? Is it likely to give family details - parents of the accused etc. I am quite tempted as I am already quite invested in the story.

I would like to find out. If the Elizabeth Hogg residing at the boathouse in 1841 is the daughter (born 1810) of Andrew Hogg and Elisabeth Davidson. I have looked for marriage records for Hogg / Yeoman but canít find anything.

Any additional information on Janet Hogg also residing at the boathouse in 1841 - possibly the grandmother of Thomas and likely to be the sister of Andrew Hogg. Also, any idea what Sp dealer is?

I also cannot find any further mention of Elizabeth Hogg (1810) - death certificate/marriage etc so any pointers would be great.

It may well not be connected at all. I am working on the assumption that the Elizabeths are the same.

And finally any additional information on Andrew Hogg - if the ancestry information is accurate and why it is not on Scotlandís People (user error)?

Iíll post updates of any progress.

Thanks for your help.

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