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Messages - phil57

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199
The Common Room / Re: New My Heritage possible relationships feature issue
« on: Thursday 02 March 23 14:44 GMT (UK)  »
The feature is based on the amounts of shared DNA and the probabilities of relationships for the length of the match. For any given relationship there is a range of possible match lengths, and the probabilities of matches at that relationship level for varying match lengths can be viewed in tools such as DNA Painter - https://dnapainter.com/blog/introducing-the-updated-shared-cm-tool/

DNA inheritance is to an extent random, which is one reason why it is possible for a particular relationship to exist over a range of match lengths, and for almost any given match length, there will be an overlap of different possible relationships and probabilities.

All that My Heritage and other providers are doing when they suggest a relationship between two matches is to indicate the likeliest probability for the match length that exists. But the most likely probability isn't necessarily the actual relationship between the matches. Matches at the same length could be related in different ways at varying levels of probability, and there will always be two people who are related at the lowest level of probabilty, or that probability would not exist for the match length given.

Whilst the son will have inherited 50% of each of his parents' DNA, it doesn't follow that the 50% of the DNA that he has inherited from his father is, or includes, the entirety of the segments that are included in the match between his father and you. So if he has inherited only some of the segments that you and his father share, your match length with the son will be correspondingly lower, and the  highest probability calculated for a match at that length suggests a different relationship to that expected.

But that doesn't mean that either of the two suggested relationships are correct. Either, or both could be completely wrong. You can use the suppositions to guide your research, and a tool such as DNA Painter can give additional guidance as to the expected range of relationships for each match. The definitive relationships between you are only going to be confirmed though by verified documentary evidence - the "traditional " research which links families, ancestors and decendants by BMD, census, parish and all the other historical records available.

I believe that the My Heritage possible relationships are presented in the form of a table, which suggests a number of relationships, in descending order of probability. Effectively, they are presenting similar information to the DNA Painter tool, and the fact that the highest shown relationship might, for example, state 3rd cousin with a probability of 55.8%, doesn't mean that the lowest indicated relationship of 2nd cousin's son at a probability of 2.3% isn't the correct relationship between you, or indeed any of the intervening relationships in the list. 55.8% of people sharing the same amount of DNA can expect to be related at the highest level, but 2.3% might be related at the lowest level, with varying probabilities inbetween.

200
The Common Room / Re: Geneanet trees now coming up as suggestions on Ancestry
« on: Thursday 02 March 23 09:44 GMT (UK)  »
Because as Ancestry say, any changes "usually take about a month or more to be reflected in the search index".

201
The Common Room / Re: Bishops Transcripts - how did they work?
« on: Wednesday 01 March 23 19:23 GMT (UK)  »
I also understood that the "original" transcripts were submitted on individual sheets and depending on the Diocese, may have been bound or bundled for storage and safekeeping.

The following is a description of the surviving Bishop's Transcripts for the Diocese of Bath and Wells, which describes how they were sorted and stored. Between 1913 and 1922, Edward DWELLY produced several printed volumes of information copied from the original Bishop's Transcripts for Bath and Wells. Although I don't have it to hand right now, in his forward to the volumes, DWELLY explained that his records were necessarily incomplete, owing to the poor condition of the surviving bundles, of which many were in varying states of decomposition and therefore unreadable either in parts or as a whole. Certainly the surviving transcripts for the Somerset parishes that I have an interest in can best be described as patchy, and make it impossible to trace my ancestors back bfore c. 1700 with any certainty, as more years are missing than survive.

Canon 70 of 1598 which provided for the keeping of parchment registers also required the annual return of transcripts to the Bishop. Transcripts now survive for about two thirds of the parishes in the diocese from before 1600; a few returns for years prior to 1598 exist, the earliest being for Ashington which, although defaced, can be assigned to the years 1572 or 1573.

In the latter part of the 19th century, by the generosity of the Bishop, Arthur Hervey (d 1894), the pre-1812 transcripts were sorted into parochial bundles, the post-1812 transcripts being left in annual bundles. Bundles now exist for all parishes in the ancient diocese, except that the parochial bundles for Bedminster and Brislington were sent to Bristol at some date subsequent to this rearrangement. It is rare, however, to find a parish for which more than 20% of the years between 1600 and 1800 are covered, but between 1800 and 1837 the cover is reasonably complete.

The post 1812 returns were probably arranged alphabetically within each year, as there is clear evidence of this from the 1830s, but much of this had been lost over the years of use. To ease future reference each annual bundle between 1813 and 1837 has been split into alphabetical bundles by initial letters of parishes (thus all the A parishes are together, etc).

For the pre-1812 bundles the original (ie late 19th century) numeration has been retained and cross references added where more than one bundle exists for a parish (eg North Barrow appears under 'N' or 'B' and Stoke St Gregory has a separate bundle under 'S' and also appears under 'N' with North Curry. Parishes marked with an * are Peculiar parishes for which additional (generally C18th) transcripts will be found among the records of the relevant Peculiars [ref: D/D/P]

The pre-1812 transcripts for about one third of the parishes in the diocese have been copied into manuscript volumes by or on behalf of E Dwelly and some of these have been printed in the series Dwelly's Parish Records (1913 onwards).

The manuscript volumes, including copies of the Bedminster transcripts subsequently transferred to Bristol, and an index (not finely sorted) are also deposited in the Record Office. Two boxes of unidentified fragments are stored at the end of the series. Most are very fragile and should not be examined but many may possibly be identified by internal evidence of incumbent's name and comparison with the appropriate parish register.


(Catalogue description from the SW Heritage Centre)

202
The Common Room / Re: Ancestry membership renewal 2023 :
« on: Tuesday 28 February 23 09:38 GMT (UK)  »
Whilst exporting your tree is a belts and braces approach, and if you have a tree on Ancestry as your main or only tree, it should probably be backed up regularly anyway, in my experience there is no need to worry about losing your tree if you allow your subscription to lapse, at least for the short period before negotiating a renewal. I have done it three times now, and each time my account becomes a registered guest account on expiry of the current subscription, and the several trees I have on the site have all remained intact and viewable.

203
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Co-habiting/ family mystery
« on: Tuesday 28 February 23 09:23 GMT (UK)  »
I have numerous examples of bigamous marriages in my tree, usually involving untruths on the part of one or the other party that they were widowed, or married again under their maiden name. Some later repeated the marriage when their circumstances changed to legalise it, for example when the previous husband who was already dead according to the information given at the first marriage (but was in reality still alive) had actually subsequently died, and the wife could claim to be a widow again, but that time truthfully.

One of my GGFs married 6 times, at least two of which were bigamous, and three of his wives had similar circumstances. And a GG Uncle who remarried bigamously after his first wife had left him, she in turn marrying again a further two times, firstly declaring herself a spinster, and then as a widow she later married the brother of her second husband which was itself illegal at the time.

204
The Common Room / Re: 1921` census
« on: Monday 27 February 23 09:39 GMT (UK)  »
Bit of a typo there  ;D

Oops :-[

It might even happen after 2025 then!

205
The Common Room / Re: 1921` census
« on: Monday 27 February 23 09:27 GMT (UK)  »
Probably in or after 1925, when FindMyPast's exclusivity deal as the digitisation partner expires. It will depend on TNA and Ancestry as to whether each side wishes to form a contract, but I can't see it not happening personally.

206
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Parish Register coverage
« on: Sunday 26 February 23 09:41 GMT (UK)  »
If you are looking for digitised copies of the parish registers, you will find the records for different counties hosted on different sites, such as FindMyPast and Ancestry. Some are on the individual county or records office websites only, e.g. Kent Cityark and Essex Records Office.

Check FindMyPast and Ancestry for the records you are looking for. On Ancestry, select the Card Catalogue and search by county keyword to narrow down the search. On FindMyPast, select All Record Sets, use the county as a search term and look for Parish Records Browse. You will find for example, that Ancestry has images of the parish registers for Somerset, whereas FindMyPast only has transcripts. The reverse is true for Lincolnshire, etc.

So it's a matter of finding where the information you are interested in is hosted. If you are unlucky, like me, you may find you need several site subscriptions including the above two and others, e.g. Essex Archives, to cover your family research.

207
The Common Room / Re: GRO records - a cautionary tale
« on: Friday 24 February 23 18:09 GMT (UK)  »
Ah, a marriage in a Primitive Methodist Chapel is one of the less likely to be online I think.

This page may be of interest: https://www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/content/research-resources/marriage-in-primitive-methodist-chapels

and this: https://www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/content/chapels/lincolnshire/w-z-lincolnshire/waltham_primitive_methodist_chapel_nr_grimsby_lincolnshire

If Lincolnshire Archives don't hold the records then GRO may be your only option, unless someone else knows different.

Have you checked with Lincs Archives? Their catalogue does show that they hold records for Waltham Primitive Methodist Chapel under the reference "Meth/C/Waltham, Primitive".

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