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Messages - crb83

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10
Dublin / Smiths' Guild (Guild of St. Loy) of Dublin City; Commissioning Research
« on: Thursday 30 January 20 16:49 GMT (UK)  »
I had several ancestors who were painters & glaziers in Dublin city c1740-1840 and possibly earlier. I am trying to find out what records have survived, I would assume they are accessible in the Dublin City Archives Reading Room but cannot be sure. I would like to commission an area genealogist to research this family, if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.  Thank you!

Chris

11
Cavan / Macleans in Tullyhaw & Carnmaclean.
« on: Monday 19 August 19 14:04 BST (UK)  »
Hello everyone, I recently sent this email to Cavan Genealogy which is run by a McGovern, hoping to get some historical insight due to lack of paper records in Tullyhaw pre-1700, but their current email address at eirecom.net is bad.  Im not sure if the organization still exists or not.  I figured with the bright minds on this board, Ill throw this question your way!

--------

Good afternoon,

  I run the McGovern DNA group on FamilyTreeDNA and although the timeframe I am researching is beyond the point of written genealogical records,  I am seeking some historical knowledge and perspective of northern Tullyhaw since there is really no references to the townlands surrounding Glangevlin until circa 1700.

   My paternal ancestors were McLains, and not until fairly recently with advances in Y-DNA, did I find out that more distantly, they were McGoverns.  The surname Maclean on my line, likely the result of non-paternal event between Gallowglass mercenaries in the area and the native inhabitants of Tullyhaw, as you know the complex way in which celtic kinship worked (also,  the Gallowglass recruited native farmboys/soldiers as their ranks dwindled from war, as it was cheaper and faster than the Chieftain to replenish ranks via the highlands).   I found records of the Ui Ruairc having Maclean gallowglass in his service in the late 15th century in the Ulster Annals, as two of them, Ruadhri and Alan, were noted as slain fighting for the Ui Ruairc against a sept of the MacRaghnaill in 1486.  Likely, the Ui Ruairc had billeted his mercenaries in the border areas of his territory. I found a large concentration of McCleans around Killeshandra circa 1600s and even got in touch with a descendant who still lives in Drumgoa, descended of Patrick McClean, who appears in the 1663 hearth rolls farming the same Drumlin, and sent him a DNA test. It turns out that his Y-chromosome markers are actually MacKiernan, native to Tullyhunco, which means a separate non-paternal event occured between Macleans and the MagTighernan. 

  Since I first started trying to sort out the mystery of how distantly my ancestors were MacGoverns (right now it seems probable to be somewhere in the mid-1500s, but that is based on the data I have to compare with), I have been trying to find information on the townland near Glangevlin named Carnmaclean.  My closest DNA matches are two 2 McGoverns from Glangevlin, and a Dolan from Altnasheen.  I realize that many of the townlands in northern Tullyhaw were not regularly occupied until after the plantation started, as people were dispossessed and went further into the mountains.  But would the townland Carnmaclean have already been named at this time? As I know townlands close by like Dunmakeever and Corneenflynn were the areas inhabited by Samhradhains ancestors.

 My question is probably more of a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" type, but Im wondering if its feasible that Carnmaclean was an area given by Ui Ruairc to his gallowglass, where they either recruited or became kin to some McGovern families. Or is it more likely that it received its name later on as a dispossessed Maclean from further east, like Killeshanda, was pushed off of the land that they had been farming for centuries?

  Thank you so much for your time, and I am looking forward to hear any insight that you may have.

12
Dublin / Commissioning Research at the Dublin City Archives
« on: Tuesday 16 October 18 16:53 BST (UK)  »
I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction to an accredited genealogist in Dublin city?

I would like to commission research into the city guild records pre-1800 and also the Tholsell Court Books. To my knowledge, these dont exist anywhere else and must be viewed in the reading room.  Thank you for your help!

Chris

13
Cavan / Re: McCLEANs from KILLESHANDRA area
« on: Monday 15 October 18 19:43 BST (UK)  »
Going back that far a community notice included in the parish newsletter might be worth a try??


  https://www.corloughtempleport.com/newletters2/  they are quite active there on history!!

http://www.templeport.ie/pages/history.html

Wow thats a great idea, thank you!!

14
Cavan / Re: McCLEANs from KILLESHANDRA area
« on: Monday 15 October 18 19:18 BST (UK)  »
Religion?
The McCleans in Killeshandra would be catholic. My ancestors who came into Dublin did so as recent converts circa 1700, I believe some were soldiers at the time, where attendance to Anglican services was mandatory. They probably came out of the Killeshandra area in the period post-Cromwell.

15
Cavan / Re: McCLEANs from KILLESHANDRA area
« on: Monday 15 October 18 19:17 BST (UK)  »


Religion?
The McCleans in Killeshandra would be catholic. My ancestors who came into Dublin did so as recent converts circa 1700, I believe some were soldiers at the time, where attendance to Anglican services was mandatory. They probably came out of the Killeshandra area in the period post-Cromwell.

16
Cavan / McCLEANs from KILLESHANDRA area
« on: Monday 15 October 18 19:11 BST (UK)  »
Im from the US and looking for any McCleans from the Killeshandra area, specifically Drumgoa.

For over a decade, I have been trying to find the origin of my McLain ancestors who came into Dublin city in the early 1700s working as carpenters and glaziers. I was recently able, through Y-DNA,to identify them as a part of an ancient Irish farming cluster that originated in the old kingdom of Breifne in west Cavan, which to my knowledge was an Irish family named Maclean that originated in this area with no relation to Scotland. For a long time, I thought my ancestors had emigrated from Scotland at some point either as early gallowglass mercenaries or later protestant settlers. Recent developments in the DNA field disproved that theory when I was confirmed A5902+ which is a mutation that arose around the Cavan/Leitrim border in the lands of the ORourkes, McGoverns, McKiernans, OReillys. There is a townland in templeport named Carnmaclean which references this old family and would explain why all my closest DNA matches are to McGoverns (Carnmaclean is in Tullyhaw aka Magaurans Country).  An entry in the Ulster Annals from 1486 notes a man named Gille-Eoin, whose sons Alan & Ruiadhri were slain assisting the ORourkes & MacRannels with an interfamily rivalry among the MacRannels of Leitrim.  Could this be the pregenitor of this family?

Although pre-1700 records in the area are scant, I found the McCleans concentrated in Killeshandra parish in the 1664 hearth rolls. The 1664 hearth rolls only exist for Tullyhunco & half of Tullyhaw (none for Leitrim). But the 1659 Penders census notes several *McGilEoin* families around Mohill & Carrigallen in Leitrim. I do believe there was a much larger family spread out through Breifne just for the fact that in the 1641 claimants, there are several identified on the Cavan/Monaghan border:
Gillis McClane, rebel in Carrickmacross, burglary/robbery, 23 Oct 1641
William McKealane of Killarow, rebel in Dromgoon, 1641
Maa Mc Callane, of Ralaghan, rebel in Drumgoon, armed robbery, 1641
Ever Mc Callane, rebel in Carrickmacross, robbery & arson, 1641

The reason I am interested in the family that is connected to Dromgoa is because it seems they were able to stay on this land for centuries and if they were present there today, would be the descendants of this original family who were tenants of the MacKiernans of Tullyhunco before the Plantation. Drumgoa may be their original ancestral land-holding in Breifne.

DRUMGOA, KILLESHANDRA, TULLYHUNCO land records...

1664- Patrick McClain (hearth tax)
1832- Bryan & Michael McClean, 32 acres (Tithe books)
1857- John & Bernard McClean, 41 acres (Griffiths Valuation)
1901- McClean Heads of Households :Edward, Thos, Wm, John(Census)
1911- McClean Heads of Households: Thos, John, Wm, Edw., Thos (Census)

A google search of the surname with Drumgoa turned up very recent obituaries of McCleans who live in Drumgoa, and it would be a really strange coincidence if they werent descendants of the original farmer tenants of this place 400+ years ago.

If any possible distant relatives can get in touch with me, Id love to not only hear about the McCleans history in Cavan but also arrange a Y-DNA test if they are willing to do so.

Thank you!
Chris (McLain) Beal

17
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: Londonderry/Derry City 1650s
« on: Saturday 30 December 17 21:07 GMT (UK)  »
Hey Joe,
I havent done a very intense search as of yet but I did come across St Columb's records with the surnames O'Bryan/McBrian, McRannell, and O'Gormley. That is aside from the McCleans and O'Rudden/O'Rodden. These names all show up c1653-54 and coincidentally thats when Cromwell went through cavan (O'Reilly's last holdout in lough oughter surrendered apr 1653) The 1659 census shows 12 O'Ruddan families around Londonderry, and it is only numerous in it's Cavan origin (several mcCrudden and ORudden families im tullyhunco cavan 1660s. There are several McClains there in the hearth rolls who seem native irish.
There is a Patrick McClain in Donegal close to Londonderry and a Patrick McClain in Killeshandra, Cavan (1664 Hearth).  Not that I can draw any solid conclusions, but its an interesting theory, especially wondering just how my native Irish McLains eventually became staunchly protestant military men & merchants.  Im hoping to find links to the bigger west cavan families (like O'Rourke, O'Reilly, McGovern/Magauran, McKiernan/Tiernan, Duffy, Dolan, Kelagher, McCarmine) to really lean towards a significant population movement.

Thank you for your help!




18
Derry (Londonderry) / Londonderry/Derry City 1650s
« on: Wednesday 22 November 17 18:39 GMT (UK)  »
Im wondering if any of the Derry historians here have some insight on the goings-on in and near the city around the time of Cromwell. I have a possible marriage record hit of Ulster ancestors in St. Columb in 1663 (Daniel McClean & Mary O'Ruddan), I believe Daniel may be my ancestor. 

Now the reason it stands out is more-so because of DNA.  I am A5902+ which goes back to West Cavan with numerous close matches in Tullyhaw & Tullyhunco. I recently discovered a McClean farming cluster there that arose independently in the Killeshandra area, unrelated to any Scots or Gallowglass in Ireland. These McCleans are actually rather close kin to the McGoverns and McKiernans and although my papertrail is back to the mysterious Daniel McClean in the late 1600s, there is a lack of any records pertaining to his place of birth.

My ancestor Daniel McClean in question lived approx 1640s to 1683 and was a soldier who died in Dublin (St Johns C of I)and could have come from anywhere.
In Derry,  an Irish family of McCleans, ORuddans and numerous other Cavan surnames begin appearing in St Columbs Londonderry registers in 1654. They were clearly Irish due to their given names of children (Maeve, Maghnus, Owen, etc) and I believe the Daniel who married 1663 was an older son of this family. 

Coincidentally with the date these Cavan surnames start appearing there, County Cavan had just been laid waste to by Cromwells Army in 1653 and was the last gaelic Irish holdout in Ulster at the end of the 11 years war.  Its a theory of mine that there was a significant movement of population from this area either to Derry city or close enough to it that these people had begun marrying and christening children there in St. Columb shortly afterward, especially due to the lack of catholic churches in Ulster. Conversion to the church of Ireland seems more than likely.  There is also the possibility that if they were refugees within the city walls, they would have faced fines for not attending protestant services.

If anyone can point me in the right direction as to the situation in and around Londonderry at this time, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

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