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Messages - Brambletye

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Am I getting confused here :-\

That cannot be Emmanuels brother Abraham the mother was only 50 on the 51 census. also he is on the 1881 as unmarried  aged 23

The Abraham Phillips age 28 in 1881 = b. c1852/3, making him son of Samuel & Hannah

The other Abraham b. 1856 was son of Emanuel & Susan

The Abraham age 42 in 1841 and 51 in 1851 is b. c1799/1800, making him a good age to be brother to your Emmanuel's father Phillip Phillips (with luck...!)

Found Abraham and family on the 1851:

12 Bell Lane Christchurch Spitalfields

Abraham Phillips 51 General Dealer
wife Hana 48
children Woolf 25 Cigar Maker (ah... :)),
Sarah 17 Tailoress, Rosetta 15 Tailoress, Elizabeth 14, Priscilla 12 Scholar, Isaac 10.
All b. Aldgate.

No Henry, Emanuel or Michael at home - I'll have a punt round and see if anything useful turns up.

Just seen this again too...

Found Abraham Phillips 28 cigar maker living in West ham Essex in 1881. he is with Abigail (wife) and children Samuel 6, Rosetta 4, Philip 2, isabella 1.  From the name of the first son ... we have to assume that this is Samuel (brother of Emmanuel), son's family. If the above Abraham was Emmanuel's son , his first son would be named Emmanuel I have this correct ?  ::) :-\

deb  ;D

Both these families have a Rosetta, and both Samuel and Emanuel called their second son Abraham - just thinking out loud here...

Added ...that Abraham might be uncle to the Emanuel in his household in 1841, and not father?

Had a look again on 1841 and found HO107/725/1/12/18
St Botolph Aldersgate, George Court

Abrm. Phillips 42 G Dealer
wife Anna 40
children (or others...?)
Henry 22, Emanuel 17, Michael 14, Woolf 10, Sarah 6, Rosetta 5, Elizabeth 2, Priscilla 1.

If I remember rightly, it's prob. this Michael who m. Abigail Martin? where the name Emmanuel had been crossed out and his put instead?

Just wondering if we're certain that this Emanuel age 17 is  son of Abraham, as the 1841 gives no relationships - maybe a nephew, farmed out to other family by his mother, to learn a trade?

This looks interesting, a poss. for Susan Palmer on the 1841:


Susan Palmer 15 FS b. in county
living Tilley Street Spitalfields Tower Hamlets
in household of Israel Frankford age 25, Segar Maker [sic]
and his wife Rosetta age 25 - children Isiah 5, Morriss 3, Isaac 1 - all b. in county

I'll have a go for her parents now...

p.s. Oh Toni, brilliant! I hadn't thought of Immanuel...

I have been using this, eg:

ema* or emm* , b 1827,  +/- 5years,  Middlesex

Phi*  , Middlesex, Spitalfields or Whitechurch

Cat*/Kat*  b 1801 +/- 5 , Middlesex (and there are hundreds of Irish Catherines LOL )

deb :)

I'll try phe* for the surname in case the enumerator didn't dot his i's  (or cross his t's...;D)

...and here's an idea for the 1861 - how about we try it the other way around, in case the enumerator put surname first, and they've all gone down as the Emanuel family... ??? :(

Hi Deb,

I'm caning the 1841 as well - what search parameters are you using? as I'll try something else, so we might cover the ground faster...

good morning everyone  :)

Still no catherine or Emmanuel in 1841 , except the Emmanuel Brambletye say yesterday with a Caroline and other siblings....

coffee time
deb  ;D

Hi Deb  :D,

I've been trying to find these on the 1851 to see if I could eliminate them, and struck out...I'm after seeing where they give as birthplace, because three of them are down as born in Foreign Parts in 1841 (Caroline age 45, Reusel age 20, Sarah age 15 - the other two were Emanuel 10 and Simon 8).

If Caroline is a mistranscription for Catherine, there's a problem though, because in 1851 Catherine says b. Whitechapel (and that was still in the UK last time I looked  ;D)

Just noticed in 1881, Samuel's son Angel is also a Cigar Maker - working with the family of the late Emmanuel, perhaps? both families are in Tower Hamlets in 1881. It's a tenuous link maybe, but it's a little something to go on...

...just seen your last two posts Patrish, I'll also try the 1841 for any other Palmers while I'm trying for the Phillipses...

Ah - in 1861, we have:

John aged 39, Coffee Roaster, wife Mary Ann 29 Silk weaver, dau. Mary Ann age 2.

Address prob. 10 East Street Bethnal Green, but it looks as though they are sharing that with William Phillips age 75 Copper Master b. Norfolk, and his wife Charlotte age 72, same birthplace. No.s 8 & 9 are all Phillips family as well, all b. Bethnal Green,: Henry & Ann, with children Ann, Henry, John, Mary Ann, Caroline, Edward, Frederick; then Harriet  & her dau. Harriett - mostly silk weavers.

Not certain now this is the right John... :(

...but re the death of a Catherine 1856 Whitechapel, might be worth giving that a go, as yours was in Whitechapel on the 1851 (and we can't find her on the 1861...not that anyone has turned up on that yet...!) the Death cert. would give the Informant, and that might be family, with luck...

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