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Messages - castlebob

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10
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Broken Trees in Heraldry
« on: Sunday 28 June 20 11:37 BST (UK)  »
Thanks. Fortunately we have all the arms in our Armstrong Clan Association archives. Luckily, we've managed to get a number of the families to Y-DNA test which is a great asset to our research efforts. Most of the arms & shields from the 16th century onwards feature similar symbols. Unlike the mythology, the tree symbols probably stem back to the first Armstrongs who were 13th C verderers. I have copies of their records taken from the Lanercost & Wetheral Cartularies. King's pardons were issued to some when they were accused of murder - either in their role as verderers, or their jousting habit.

11
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Broken Trees in Heraldry
« on: Sunday 28 June 20 10:57 BST (UK)  »
Ah, yes!

12
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Broken Trees in Heraldry
« on: Sunday 28 June 20 09:58 BST (UK)  »
The attached is Armstrong of Mangerton, featured in Stodart Vol 1. This may well represent the death/removal of the last Armstrong laird.
William Berry's 'Complete Dictionary of Heraldry' Vol 2 mentions a number of examples of broken lances & spears.
Cheers,
Bob
PS I should add that some myths have been spun around this particular tree symbol by Victorian-era researchers, but these have been discredited.

13
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Broken Trees in Heraldry
« on: Sunday 28 June 20 08:59 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Maec,
I'm not asking the question re any particular  surname, just that I've seen several examples over the years & am curious. I've seen a number of examples featuring broken lances and gather that signifies peace, which seems quite logical.
Cheers,
Bob

14
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Broken Trees in Heraldry
« on: Friday 26 June 20 13:34 BST (UK)  »
I'm interested to know precisely what a broken oak tree means in heraldry. By 'broken' I mean with the top cut - see attached. I have read somewhere that it indicates an early death, but would like confirmation. Also, what does an eradicated tree (roots exposed)  indicate? 
Cheers,
Bob

15
Graveyards and Gravestones / Re: Symbol on Grave Query
« on: Saturday 20 June 20 17:48 BST (UK)  »
Thanks all,
Please use the 'Heraldry' section to continue this discussion.
Cheers,
Bob

16
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Chevronnel Query
« on: Saturday 20 June 20 17:46 BST (UK)  »
Thanks All. I can say that these people built a number of Peel Towers; some of stone, most of wood. In the area were two similar types of arms: the first appears to be a chevron, while the second appears to be a square of some sort.
Cheers,
Bob

17
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Chevronnel Query
« on: Saturday 20 June 20 15:26 BST (UK)  »
I found this suare in a Medieval Woodworking book. Very similar, but would like to know if others think this is correct, plus if there are other examples of it in heraldry.

18
Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Re: Chevronnel Query
« on: Saturday 20 June 20 15:00 BST (UK)  »
Thanks both,
It was on a stone circa 1550, so wondered if it was too early to be a Freemason's symbol? It certainly looks like a square, so possibly is!

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