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Messages - Lucy2

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New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Today at 03:57 »
WATSON in Napier NZ :

Back in reply # 45 where I've mentioned the Benjamin WATSON family (and the "St Clair" name), I have now come across an advertisement confirming his longevity in Carlyle Street.

Seems to have been quite a lengthy street back in the day, with a mix of industry and residential cottages, hotels, boarding houses.    This got me to thinking some more about whether this George Henry WATSON, insurance agent, resident of Carlyle Street in 1899 and 1900, was living at the same place as Benjamin or Charles WATSON ?     A nuisance that there were no apparent street numbers.    I came to the conclusion that if George Henry WATSON - in his daily business of selling insurance and travelling for that purpose - had been staying elsewhere in Carlyle Street, then it might well have been that his address listing showed more information .. e.g. name of a hotel or boarding house ??

    ~  Lu

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Today at 03:08 »
Great information ... thanks again.   :)

Sad about lack of trains, these days.   And the Gorge road trip was quite magnificent scenery-wise as long as you weren't the driver !   

    ~  Lu

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Today at 02:27 »
Thanks Ian ... I knew you would come to the party !!  ;D    Most helpful.   :)

[ And now the Gorge road, ain't no more - courtesy of an earthquake or two. ] 

    ~  Lu

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Yesterday at 19:41 »
Link to NZ BDM >

Names of both parents for each, plus father's occupation, birthplaces of bride and groom and their current and usual addresses, ... were questions asked in that era.   Names (and sometimes addresses) of witnesses to marriage.
Be sure though to order the printout version ... this is a scanned image of the original record.

NZ BDM Reference :
1900/532 - RASMUSSEN, Henrietta Louisa -- WATSON, George Henry

   ~  Lu

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Yesterday at 19:17 »
Henry WATSON / Henry George WATSON / George Henry WATSON :

Summary :

Think I mentioned earlier that I'd found Frances ROWNTREE on NZ electoral rolls.

1905-06 - West Coast - Buller (South Island) and also in 1908

ROWNTREE - Francis* - Wakefield Street (Westport) - spinster
[Note:  * Francis is usually the male spelling of name - but as it also says "spinster" it probably is meant as Frances ?    This date is earliest sighting of her on NZ e/rolls although she may have been eligible to vote from 1893 in NZ ... possibly she was in Victoria with her parents at the time her sister Hannah married there ??   Family ROWNTREE appear back in NZ at Petone, Wellington in 1905-06. ]

1908 - also on  Manawatu-Wanganui > Pahiatua roll
ROWNTREE - Frances - Woodville - spinster

... she also has this same listing in 1911 although it may just be because her name was not removed from the roll.

Who knows though if she met her Henry WATSON in NZ and they ran away to Australia ?
In 1908 -  George Henry WATSON was living at Palmerston North and Frances was residing at Woodville.   Those places are reasonably close - although in that era I'm not entirely sure what the practicalities were in journeying easily between the two ??   [I think we have an expert on here who knows that territory well ??  ;)  hoping he can help ? ]

Just going back to Henry WATSON on VIC e/rolls from 1913 (and birth cert of Gordon) where he's a "traveller" by occupation.    Very similar perhaps to the work that George Henry WATSON in New Zealand was engaged in ?    Travelling to numerous localities selling life insurance.

And later it is noted (I think) that Henry WATSON in VIC was "an agent" / a "commission agent" on e/rolls ?     Seems he was a "sales person" of some sort ??

For my part, I think there are too many similarities between these WATSONs - Henry and George Henry,  to ignore completely.   ;)

A step forward may well be to purchase the marriage printout of 1900 for George Henry WATSON and Henrietta Louisa RASMUSSEN ??      [Weigh that up with what it might cost to get research done by a Timaru/Oamaru family history society - who may just echo info already given here. ]

I'll add a link next post for NZ BDM so you can see what info is available on a 1900 marriage record.

    ~  Lu

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Yesterday at 18:26 »
George Henry WATSON - husband of Henrietta Louisa WATSON :

I found no births to this couple.     They seemed to be forever on the move throughout the North and South Islands ... often being registered in the same year in two electorates.     I'm guessing that the nature of George Henry's job in selling life insurance, necessitated these moves ?

Electoral :   
1899 - 1900 - Hawkes Bay > Napier
WATSON - George Henry - insurance agent - Carlyle Street
RASMUSSEN - Henrietta Louisa - Criterion Hotel, domestic duties  (name not removed from 1902 roll at Napier)

1902 - Wellington > Newtown --  and also -- 1902 - Canterbury > Avon rolls
WATSON - George Henry- insurance agent / Henrietta Louisa - married
 both at 9 Russell Tce, Wellington and ...  at 20 Haast Street, Linwood, Christchurch (her mother at this address too).

1905-06 - Nelson  > Nelson Main roll

- both at Waimea Street - GHW is listed as Superintendent, T & G Life [Temperance and General Insurance] - HLW is married.
1905-06 - also on Supplementary roll (dated 15 November 1905) at Otago > Dunedin South
GHW - Insurance superintendent -- HLW married - both at  125 Maitland Street

1908 - still on Dunedin roll
1908 - have moved to Manawatu-Wanganui > Palmerston (North)
-  GHW - Life Insurance Inspector / HLW - married - at 38 Broad Street, Palmerston North.

No further sightings in NZ of this George Henry WATSON (insurance company employee) :

In 1911 his deserted wife is alone at 73 Symonds Street, Auckland - listed as "married".
Later, Henrietta Louisa WATSON is a "widow" living 1914 at Wellington and a "widow" still when she begins sharing an address in 1919 (in Wellington) with Frederick William NEEDHAM a billiard saloon proprietor.  They remain in Wellington until 1928.   They're missing from rolls in 1931 but marry in 1934 and by 1935 are residing in Timaru where they are both eventually to be buried.   [Her mother, Philippina RASMUSSEN and a sibling (Caroline ?? ) are also buried at Timaru. ]
Edited to add >  the sibling was "Willowmena ANDREWS"  [aka Wilhelmina ? ]

I haven't found a divorce record for GH and HL WATSON ... and perhaps they didn't ever divorce ?
The "widow" status of Henrietta Louise may have been simply a ruse ?  (Fairly common for deserted wives to do just that).
"Timaru"  ... can't really find an explanation for this connecting to Henry WATSON ... he was long dead before this woman Henrietta went to live there (if in fact he is George Henry and Henrietta is his former wife ?).   ??? ??? ???
[Henrietta Louisa RASMUSSEN's birth 1872 was registered at the gold-mining town of Gabriel's in Otago.  ]

   ~  Lu                                                            continues next  > >

Edit ... to enhance text.

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Yesterday at 17:37 »
George Henry WATSON  - New Zealand : 

The New Zealand Police Gazette of January 1910, reported a George Henry WATSON* > born in NZ - aged [at that time ] 37 years, [born c. 1872 ], a former manager at Colonial Mutual Life Assn.  [insurance company] at Palmerston North, had deserted his wife, Henrietta Louisa, at Auckland on 6th instant.
A follow up report of un-issued warrants at 31 March 1910, shows WATSON had not been found by that date.     Could find no further articles seeking this man in NZ or Australia.
[*  Not to be confused with a Henry WATSON (deserted wife Louisa May) also Auckland 1909 or another George Henry Watson (bc 1870) reported in other issues of NZ Police Gazette.]
link >

This George Henry WATSON had married Henrietta Louisa RASMUSSEN (bc 1872 - NZ) in 1900 - probably at Napier where both were residing.

The couple moved around the country, alot.   Probably this had to do with his job as an "insurance agent".

Of interest (maybe), is that this George Henry WATSON, insurance agent, in both 1899 and 1900 is listed as living in Carlyle Street, Napier.     In the same street (unumbered), same years and earlier,  some other WATSONs.   Benjamin WATSON - a gun maker - his wife Laura / their married son Charles (warehouseman) and his spouse, Rosina.   
Benjamin WATSON, wife and five children had arrived in Napier from Warwickshire, ENG in 1877 (ship : "Mataura").   Their youngest child, b. 1877 (ENG), was named Rowland and in  later NZ electoral rolls he is often shown as "Rowland St. Clair WATSON" or variations "Roland" / "Sinclair" / and also as R. St Clair Hawkesford WATSON ... Hawkesford being his mother Laura's, maiden name.
Unfortunately, have not been able to find a link for George Henry to these other WATSONs ... and to confuse further, "St Clair" and its variants, used with surname WATSON, is not as unusual as it might seem.  (A couple of NZ births too.)

[Note:   There was quite a bit of info to be had for all these WATSONs ... electoral / burial / probate files / etc. etc.   ... won't publish here as it's irrelevant for the time being, but will keep my notes in case needed. ]

In following post will give further detail for George Henry WATSON and the deserted wife.

   ~  Lu                                                                      continues  > >

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Yesterday at 16:43 »
Henry WATSON / Henry George WATSON / George Henry WATSON :    ??? ??? ???

Earlier in this search > before info was posted here about the contents of death certs and electoral rolls > I stumbled upon the following "George Henry WATSON".   

I kept him in the background - just in case - and was a bit suprised when you'd said that Gordon S. WATSON had, on his marriage, given his father's name as "George" (albeit a "carpenter by trade").
And ... when Henry's death was discovered, that he'd been buried as "Henry George WATSON".
So why was Henry, always just "Henry WATSON" on VIC e/rolls ... and why did the name "George" creep in ??    Was he Henry George or George Henry in a former life ??

As already mentioned by others here, NO marriage between Frances and Henry has been found in New Zealand ... and I'm guessing too that Australian indexes have been checked ?

There does seem then to have been an "impediment" to Frances and Henry marrying ?   Was it that one, or both were already wed to others ??    Nothing found for Frances ... Henry a little more difficult to trace.

Aside from the names "Henry" / "George" ...and those two names in combination, there are other similarities such as, year of birth, occupation and the time-frame in which one man "Henry George WATSON" apparently arrived in Australia, and the other, "George Henry WATSON" apparently disappeared from New Zealand ??

   ~  Lu                                                              >   continues next post  >>

New Zealand / Re: Henry Watson
« on: Yesterday at 15:46 »
....  Frances on the birth certificate has Melbourne as place of birth!
....  but  as far as family knows she was from New Zealand. On Frances' death certificate Place of birth is Auckland New Zealand  in 1959 when she died at Traralgon Victoria  she had been in Australia for 50 years.

 .... I wonder would local family history societies [*Timaru / Oamaru ] perhaps have information on any Watson families that I might be 'lucky' enough to be able to connect to Henry George Watson.
[* = my note ]

Hi Carol

From that info you've supplied, it appears that Frances and Henry had both been in  Victoria from 1909.   (Some consistency there  ;D ).   
Frances ROWNTREE (dau. of Edward Casson ROWNTREE and Hannah Winifred BUTTON) was born 1872 in Dunedin NZ (as per post from "eyesee" earlier) ... and electoral rolls also confirm Edward's presence in Otago during late 1860's and 1870's. :
Info from  family history societies (Timaru / Oamaru ) :    Try as I might, I cannot find a possible birth in or near, either of those localities for a "Henry / Henry George / George Henry" .
Have also just recently scoured the newspapers of those areas for WATSON birth notices and any other WATSON snippets which might relate.   I've been able to eliminate some persons/items.  The problem with the NZ Birth index (@ ancestry site) is that for the early 1870's, the index only gives "New Zealand" as a place of birth registration (rather than a specific city, town, etc. )  And that means we have to employ other techniques to hopefully find further information ... not always possible when working solely online.      As to electoral information / directories etc. for NZ, not all males were on rolls before 1880-81 ... so at the time of Henry's birth, early 1870's, it might be that his father (and, if indeed his surname was WATSON ?) was not showing up on rolls. 
I have no idea whether a family history society can assist you at all with this ?

In the information I'll post next, there is an obscure link to Timaru (which may link to "possible place of birth" on Henry's death cert. ?? ... it's purely speculation though).

     ~  Lu

PS ... sorry if there's a large gap in this post ... have tried unsuccesfully to correct it.  (probably connected to an advertisment appearing on page - although there's not one coming up ?? )

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