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Topics - Ayashi

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Wiltshire / Henry SUMBLER 1771 Calne, Wiltshire - transcript but no christening?
« on: Friday 29 October 21 00:52 BST (UK)  »
Hi all

I've been looking at DNA matches and found a common surname- SUMBLER. In tracing back their line,  I've got to Henry SUMBLER and Jane WHATLEY, who married in 1766, Calne, Wiltshire. Known children include Betty 1767, John 1769, Thomas 1772, Jane 1774 and Stephen 1776.

I had hoped I could fit in my ancestor, Henry, but I'm doubting that the more I look at this. My Henry married in 1786 (first child 1785) so his preliminary dob was going to be late 1760s. A potential burial gives dob 1766.

The only christening I can see is Henry SUMBLER 1771 Calne, Wiltshire.

Here's the problem- the two transcripts (Anc, FindMyPast) do not have parents details but agree on the date being 18 Feb 1771. Anc has Wiltshire PR images but when I looked at 1771 the christening isn't there. In order to have transcripts, it must exist somewhere, right? Either on a different document, a different year or a different place  :-\

I checked it hoping for a child a few years old, but then found Betty and John as above, which made that seem very unlikely where this couple is concerned. Nevertheless, I suspect there's a link somewhere if I get back far enough. There are a few SUMBLER couples in Calne at this time and I'm hoping I can fit Henry 1771 in somewhere... if only I can find out who he is.

Can someone help me track down this elusive entry?

Thanks in advance


Edit- I may have answered my own question... sigh

The marriage of Henry SUMBLER to Mary COSTER was 18 Feb 1771, Calne. No wonder there were no parents on it, it was a marriage not a christening. Just goes to show how reliable transcripts can be  ::)

That does leave me without a christening for my Henry though. Back to the drawing board.  >:(

Cornwall / Finding Cory
« on: Tuesday 21 September 21 19:07 BST (UK)  »
Hi all

My 4th great grandparents William UGLOW and Jane KITTOW (married 1817, Warbstow) enjoyed naming their children after family members, including:
Edwin Cory UGLOW (1819, later 1838)
John Kittow UGLOW (after her father)
William Taylor UGLOW (after her grandfather)
Wymond Cory UGLOW (1831)

CORY was his mother's maiden name (Margaret dau of Richard). Here's the catch- I have no idea who the original Edwin CORY and Wymond CORY were. There's a tree online (unproven by me) that does not name them and even searching I don't get much for any Wymonds and nothing at all for any Edwins. Since Edwin was their firstborn son and a name reused later it seems to have been someone important?

I have found some reference to a Reverend Weymond CORY:

Weymond CORY
Born c.1747 (nothing found)
Document for 1774 Lesnewth [7 miles from Jacobstow]
Married 1781, St Stephens by Saltash [37 miles from Jacobstow]
Died 1820 Tywardweath [31 from Jacobstow]

However I can't match him up to my family.

At the end of the day this might just be one of those little mysteries that will bother the curious, but I wondered if any eagle eyes have better luck than me.


The Common Room / A quick bit of Latin naming...
« on: Friday 09 July 21 22:46 BST (UK)  »
I'm having fun with Latin at the moment  ::)

Walterus (Walter...) and Johannula had a number of children. I made the mistake of assuming Johannula was probably Johanna, but have since found out she's actually Jennett. Provided I have the right family, I know her brother's name, his wife's first name, her two sisters' names and who they married (can I find any of them? No... no I cannot)

The children are:
Johannes, Peterus, Thomas, Jacobus, David, Johanes, Hester, and Unknown.

I have been poking at this and found a burial for a Jonah. I had to then wonder- what would Jonah latinise to? Would it go to Johannes (or variations) or would it have a different one? It might mean that I actually have a John and a Jonah.

I have a few Jacobs dotted around the Welsh lines but I just realised that on this occasion it could well be James instead (that took me a while!) I'm assuming Jacob would also become Jacobus so could be either.

This lot are a nuisance no matter which language, frankly  ::)

Carmarthenshire / LLOYD in Carmarthenshire
« on: Saturday 03 April 21 21:09 BST (UK)  »
Hello everyone

I've got a little lead, but I'm recovering from a migraine right now so it is sending me more cross-eyed than usual. I'm hoping some experienced/eagle-eyed rootschatters might be able to help me follow it.

My (potential/probable?) ancestor Walter LEWIS (d. 1731) married "Johannula" LLOYD (d. 1708) (Latin records for the christenings... I assumed "Johanna"). I haven't found a marriage (first known child 1694, last 1708), all Meidrim, Carmarthenshire.

I was idly browsing records when I came across a probate index with Walter JONES, 1732. I thought it might be his- however, when someone kindly took a look for me, it turned out to be the probate for a Thomas LLOYD (will 1731, before my Walter's death, record for 1732) an alehouse keeper of Llanboidy, with mentions of his wife Jane, sister Mary wife of James DAVID, sister Katherine widow of Samuel DAVID and the children of "Jennett" wife of Walter LEWIS of Meidrim, Carmarthenshire.

I've been trying to find... literally anything. Christening records that far back will be hit and miss anyway, much less trying to find a Thomas, Mary, Katherine and some variation of Jennet with the same father.

Getting the will might prove Thomas as my "Johannula"'s brother if he names her children individually in it, but how might I go further back?

Any ideas or info welcome.
Ayashi :)

Armed Forces / Advice please- buying military medals & military uniform identification
« on: Saturday 20 February 21 16:15 GMT (UK)  »
Hello all.

I was approached the other day by a military historian who has bought some medals that appear to belong to my 2nd great grandfather. He wanted to share information / reunite the medals with the family.

The medals concerned are a Tubruk/Suakin medal and a Khedive star, both in good condition, along with a photograph supposedly of my 2nd great grandfather (!!). I knew we had some medals and although my mother has been obstructive to my enquiries I found an old photo that show that we have a Khedive star and a LSGC medal of his. He was entitled to the Tubruk medal but we don't appear to have it in our collection. The historian suggests that we probably have the original Khedive and the one he has is a later addition (he has shown me the photos of the ones he has, along with the name inscribed on the Tubruk medal).

As far as the photo goes, I have asked older members of the family if they believe he shares any family resemblance to his son/grandsons. While we all appear to be equally bad at determining this, I think I do see a marked similarity between the man in the photo and one of his grandsons. That said, one of my cousins has a partner with supposed military knowledge who has shed doubt on pretty much everything, from the time period to the geographical location of the uniform (I have excluded this for a reason).

The historian is happy to keep the medals (and no rush of course) but if I wish to buy them (and I do!!) he has asked that I pay what he originally paid, which is a significant amount. He has shown me the original listing to verify his quoted price.

Essentially this post in in two parts-
Firstly, I'd like advice on making an expensive transaction of this nature. They probably do belong to my great great grandfather and I feel they should be reunited with the rest of his belongings. I'm mildly annoyed that they got separated and sold in the first place and have no idea who did it. I also have no idea how much these medals are usually worth.

Secondly, despite a growing feeling that he's the right person, I'd like to address my cousin's concerns about the photograph. I haven't mentioned the time period or military details with a view to getting expertise on the photograph itself, posted with permission. I can elaborate on both the opinion and on what it is meant to be if desired.

Thanks in advance

Cornwall / Ennor/Enner buried in the church of St Agnes
« on: Sunday 01 November 20 23:11 GMT (UK)  »
Hello all.

I have found burial transcriptions for two potential ancestors, both noted to be buried in the church (St Agnes), them being:

James ENNOR bd 25 Sept 1726
John ENNER bd 29 Mar 1756

I was supposing that in order to be buried in the church one would have to be a) somehow connected to the church, b) someone of influence/respect or c) rich enough to buy your place in there, probably the latter.

I haven't found anything on FindAGrave to suggest a burial plaque, but doesn't mean there isn't one. I was wondering if anyone was familiar with the church of St Agnes or have access to anything that might shed any light on whether or not the ENNORs were a bit more well off than my average ancestor!

Thanks in advance

Devon / Western District United Service Lodge, East Stonehouse
« on: Saturday 11 April 20 14:05 BST (UK)  »
Hi all.

While doing a completely different search I found, to my surprise, that my great great grandfather Theophilus Jones was a Freemason from 1902 to his death in 1916.

Ancestry gave a link to a website "to find out more" but the website doesn't appear to exist any more. The Lodge still exists, but in the current situation the website is now unmanned so I can't ask them any questions.

Does anyone know anything more about this lodge? What benefits were there to being a Freemason?


Hello all.

I have a new 3-4th cousin DNA match (yay!) on my JONES line (yay!)

Our shared matches suggest that she is indeed related somewhere around JONES - GRIFFITHS and I have my suspicions, but I might need the eagle eyed assistance of our spectacular Rootschatters.

She has in her tree her great-grandmother Elizabeth Gladys Myfanwy DAVIES, born around 1900, died 1921.

I have in my tree Elizabeth Gladys (or Gwladys) Myfanwy JONES, 1899, illegitimate daughter of Hannah JONES. This would put our shared ancestors as my mother's g-g-grandparents, alongside another 3-4th cousin match.

One might be thinking here- but these two ladies have two different surnames!

True, but I can't trace EGM or her mother after 1901 and my match can't trace her EGM backwards. There are possibilities:
- DAVIES was the surname of EGM's biological father.
- Hannah went on to marry a DAVIES after 1901.
- EGM was later raised in her aunt's household, who married a DAVIES.
To name only three.

Further communication led to her mentioning her mother remembered a "Theo" who moved from Garnant to Swansea. I know that my EGM's first cousin Theophilus DAVIES moved to Ystalyfera, Glamorganshire from the Garnant area.

I am hoping to either finally manage to trace mine forward, hers backwards, or both. Their names don't make it easy.


Elizabeth G(w)ladys Myfanwy JONES

Born 2 qr 1899, Llanegwad, Llandilofawr. Christened 2nd June 1899.

Census 1901:
Hannah JONES 1866 Llanfihangel Abercowin
Elizabeth G W (corrected to M) JONES 1899 Llanegwad
Elizabeth JONES 1820 Llanwinio

Not found after 1901.

When Elizabeth JONES nee GRIFFITHS dies shortly after the census was taken the informant was her son in law Henry DAVIES.


Elizabeth Gladys Myfanwy DAVIES

Not found on census.

Married David REES (cousin says she thinks she might have seen the cert at some point?)
Edit- She's now amended her tree to John David REES, marriage January 1916 Llandilofawr. This might make it either the one with "Lizzie DAVIES" or potentially "Elizabeth M DAVIES".

Two children- P E 1919 and G M M 1921, both with mmn DAVIES. (Both are dead, but I didn't want to get too specific. I think P E may have been born E P)

Died 2 qr 1921, Llandilofawr (approx dob 1900). I've been told “9 days” after the birth, but also “three weeks”. 9 days would mean death took place around 4th April, which would potentially mean she hadn't turned 22 yet if she was born late May/early June. [Edited April from May, because I don't know months of the year apparently. Blame the migraine]

Events took place in Garnant.


Pity the 1921 isn't out yet, things might get a bit clearer!

Even if I can't get mine forward, I'd like to be able to help her link hers back to me, or else find alternative ancestry for her. It's her direct line and it would be nice to get results.

Any help appreciated.


United States of America / Thomas JONES - Johnstown/Carnegie/Allegheny - Pennsylvania
« on: Friday 28 February 20 22:27 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all

I have a few DNA matches who seem to match on my JONES line. Since they all descend from the same couple (via different children) I am keen to trace back their lineage to meet mine. This has been hampered by the fact I'm in the UK with not very good access to US records and no experience researching here.

The target couple is Thomas (W, although also E and F??) JONES and Mary nee WATKINS. While I think we probably do have the right parents for Mary, it makes sense to try to progress with Thomas first, given the surname.

I have him on census- his age varies and his place of birth is only given as "Wales". His gravestone and burial card give him a date of birth of 18 Jul 1835. There is a Thomas JONES born in Bangor with this birth date on his christening, but without more proving this could be coincidence. In all of Wales, it isn't impossible to have more than one Thomas Jones born on that date. There is a Hannah JONES aged 15 living with him on the 1860 Census, potentially a sister, but I can't connect her to the potential parents and haven't seen her other than that census.

It seems to me that the best sources of information would be the marriage and his death certificate?

According to descendants, the marriage took place on either 3rd May or 3rd Aug 1856, Johnstown, Pennsylvania. However, I can't find it.

The death occurred on 24 Sep 1890, Mansfield, Pennsylvania. Again, I haven't found the actual certificate. I have seen the burial card, gravestone and newspaper obituary.

He was apparently a Civil War Veteran and I've messaged someone in the hope of finding if there is anything existing relating to that.

Any help very much appreciated.


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