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Messages - davecigar

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19
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Wednesday 18 August 10 23:40 BST (UK)  »
Hi Julie,

Wm Charles Mylchreest was born in 1866, licenced as a Pilot in 1891 and died in 1918 whilst still working. He was appropriated to Manchester Liners.

In 'Returns Relating to Pilots and Pilotage' in 1895 he is attached to No 9 pilot schooner "Perseverance", aged 29, and holds a 1st Class licence enabling him to pilot any sized ship into Liverpool. In 1897 and 1900 he is attached to No 2 Steam Pilot Boat "Leonard Spear".

There is another Mylchreest listed, James Harold who was born in 1895, licenced in 1919, retired in 1960 and died in 1895. Any relation? as it's such an unusual surname.

I was at school in the 1950's with Michael Mylchreest, son of James Harold, although he did not pursue a career at sea.

The Pilot Character Book at the MMM will give you more information on their pilotage careers.

Hope this ties up a few loose ends

Regards
Dave

20
Occupation Interests / Re: Liverpool Pilots
« on: Monday 26 July 10 11:11 BST (UK)  »
Hi Moya,

Very interested, and pleased, to hear that the MMM emailed you a copy of his PCBk entry.
This will assist a lot of researchers in their quest for more information about their Pilot ancestors.

Didn't want to say too much in my first reply, but draft restriction usually meant some offence had been committed and that an appearance before the Pilotage Committe could result in a penalty for perhaps a year or two. Anyway now you know why!

Glad you now have the info you were looking for

Regards
Dave

21
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Monday 26 July 10 10:56 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
I would have thought 'zero chance' of finding HJE's attendance on the 'Titanic'.
He would not have been 'signed on' as a member of the crew nor recorded on any passenger list, only recorded in the ship's log book as embarking in Belfast and disembarking in Queenstown. As he didn't perform an act of pilotage to/from Liverpool there would not be any further reference to him.

So you will have to be satisfied that there is a distinct possibility that he did sail on the Titanic from Belfast to Queenstown, via Southampton and Cherbourg, if Evans family folklore is to be believed, but factual evidence is not available.

Family folklore, from my own research, can be extremely helpful, and factual. My father used to talk about a family connection with the Isle of Purbeck and Poole, Dorset, England but wasn't sure why? The only facts I had were from the 1841 census in Liverpool where I found my GGGrandfather, George Augustus Cockram c1800 living at Brunswick Place, Toxteth Park, Liverpool with his wife, 4 children and that he was a Master Mariner. After a great deal of time and effort I eventually tracked him down on a Merchant Navy Register at the National Archives, Kew, England which led me on to references to voyages he made from 1835 to 1840 and his name recorded as Master of 2 vessels, 'Rapid' and 'Blackaller' in Lloyds List. I now have the references to peruse crew agreements for both those vessels, but need to visit Kew again.
The important point being that the Register gave me his birthplace as Wareham, Dorset in the Isle of Purbeck. He married Sarah Williams in Poole in 1827. He arrived in Liverpool with his family between 1833 and 1835 as my GGrandfather was born in Poole in December 1832 and was christened in West Derby, Liverpool in November 1835 thereby confirming family folklore, of the Dorset connection.

Dave

22
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Sunday 25 July 10 23:54 BST (UK)  »
Hi VanSager,

The only info I have for HJE c1864 was posted here, in reply to Ryan, on 13/09/09.

Re GB's request:
Liverpool Pilots were self-employed from the day they received their first licence, the legal view being that the Owner, Master or Agent hired the services of a Pilot for a particular service to their vessel. Once that service was finished they made themselves available for their next duty, on a rotation list with other Pilots, who had also completed a service on other vessels. Therefore their services were retained by a succession of O/M/Agents and not the Pilotage Authority. Hence self-employment.

However, their compulsory earnings were collected by the Pilotage Authority as a percentage of pilotage dues, for the service completed, which was based on the draft and size of the vessel and the particular service, be it inward, outward or moving across the river from dock to dock etc. These earnings were distributed on a 'share' basis. A 1st class Pilot rec'd 1 share of earnings, a 2nd class Pilot 5/6 of a share and a 3rd class Pilot 2/3 share.

With the advent of steam driven vessels in the latter part of the 19th century, British Shipowners decided that they would prefer a more efficient service for their own ships by retaining the services of a named Pilot (or 2 /3). The Shipowner applied to the general body of Pilots for applicants for an Appropriated position with their Company. Upon selection each Pilot would be expected to pilot vessels of that Company where necessary, but if there weren't any of that Company's ships in the offing, they returned to the 'list' to take their 'turn' with other 'rota' pilots. Therefore they were never employed by a Shipping Company, only retained for their services. Therefore HJE would have only been retained by White Star Line and not employed by them.

Pilots, once licenced, almost never relinquished their licence, until retirement or death, so one can rule out Pilots leaving the confines of the Liverpool Pilot Service for employment elsewhere in the marine industry.

For this 'appropriated service' the Shipowner paid a retainer, which was minimal. In my father's case he was appropriated to Clan Line Steamers in 1953 for which he was paid the princely sum of £50pa. (Did Shipowners ever 'splash the cash'? I think not!) So one could argue that the Shipowner received this exclusive service 'on the cheap'. Basically that is correct, but from the Pilot's point of view, there was more to it than that. He consistently piloted superior vessels, became familiar with them and their crew and knew generally where and, more importantly, when he would be working. In addition there was a fee for manoeuvering vessels within the dock system, which was not part of compulsory pilotage earnings and was therefore collected by the individual. This could be considerable, as the Shipowner well knew, so he did get this additional, exclusive service for next to nothing.

Compulsory pilotage extended from the outer limits of the Pilotage Area to the lock. The lock being the entrance to the dock system, where a vessel would be raised (or lowered, if leaving) to the level of water within the system (or river). Pilotage from the lock to the berth was on a voluntary basis but in practice, vessels of reasonable size always retained the services of a Pilot.

The outer limits of the Liverpool Pilotage Area (20th century) were defined by an imaginary line being drawn from the north coast of Anglesey through Middle Mouse Island to the Calf of Man, along the east coast of the Isle of Man to Point of Air and thence to St Bees Head in Cumbria.

With reference to HJE's 'trip' to Southampton, I can only assume that he went at the behest of White Star Line, maybe to familiarise himself with the handling characteristics of the 'Titanic', in case she ever came to Liverpool. Because of the timescale prior to leaving Belfast, on her maiden voyage, a trip to Liverpool had been cancelled. I doubt he would have taken himself 'off share' just for the thrill of it and paying his own way as well. Pilot's were very pragmatic. Or another thought, maybe he had already travelled to Belfast to join the 'Titanic', for her impending call at Liverpool, when he would have been expected to commence his pilotage services as the vessel passed the outer limits, namely the Calf of Man. Maybe the call at Liverpool was cancelled after the vessel left Belfast so it was too late for him to disembark and so ended up in Southampton. It's all conjecture but the facts are somewhere! I favour the latter, but wonder why he travelled on to Cherbourg and Queenstown. Perhaps he was enjoying his enforced break from Liverpool. Stranger incidents have happened to Liverpool Pilots in my lifetime never mind the last 2 1/2 centuries!

Regards to All
Dave


23
Occupation Interests / Re: Liverpool Pilots
« on: Saturday 24 July 10 18:16 BST (UK)  »
Hi
In the 'Returns Relating to Pilots and Pilotage' for 1854, William Daniels, aged 58 is attached to No 1 Pilot Sloop "Liverpool" which was built in 1834. He is a licenced journeyman Pilot restricted to vessels drawing not more than 14 1/2 feet of water. It was unusual, although not uncommon, for a senior Pilot in age to be restricted in some way, as to the size of vessel to be piloted. No doubt his pilot record in the Pilot's Character Book will throw some light on the subject. This can be viewed at the Merseyside Maritime Museum, Albert Dock, Liverpool.
Regards
Dave

24
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Monday 19 July 10 22:34 BST (UK)  »
Hi,
There are 3 McAllister's in the list of Pilots.
1) G W McAllister (was it George William?) born 1851, licenced as a Pilot in 1870 and retired in 1917. In the 'Returns Relating to Pilots and Pilotage' for 1870 he is serving as an Apprentice Pilot attached to No 12 Pilot schooner "Perseverance", aged 19 and licenced to pilot vessels into Liverpool up to 250 tons. In the 1895 Returns he is a 1st Class Pilot, aged 44 and still attached to the "Perseverance" but she is now No 9. She was built in 1860 by T Harvey & Sons; 81'2"x18'x9'4";56grt. She became No 9 in 1885, withdrawn in 1896 and sold in 1898 for inter-island trade in the West Indies. In 1897 he is attached to Steam Pilot Boat No1 "Francis Henderson".
2) J McAllister born 1865, licenced in 1888, retired and died 1920.
3) Wm George McAllister, DOB 2/2/1882, date of admission into Pilot Service 13/9/1900 having spent 1 year 8 months sea service prior to this date. He joined Steam Pilot Boat No 4 "David Fernie" first but other records show that he also served most of his 'time' on No 3 "Queen Victoria".  He was licenced as a 3rd Class Pilot on 1st June 1908. He was a very similar age to my own grandfather who joined the Service, amazingly enough, on the same date, namely 13/9/1900 along with a further 9 other candidates, although in my grandfather's case he didn't qualify until exactly a year later 1/6/1909.
A full history of their Pilotage careers can be found in the Pilot's Character Book at the Merseyside Maritime Museum, Albert Dock, Liverpool.
Hope this answers your question.
Regards
Dave

25
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Tuesday 15 June 10 18:47 BST (UK)  »
Hi Gordon,

Tebay has Daniels J as 'DIS - drowned falling from paddle box of s.s leaving Belfast'.
Read into that what you will. Why would anyone be on the paddle box! If it had been in the vicinity of a pilot station he could have been boarding or leaving a vessel, but Belfast??
I'm afraid it is a trip to the MMM because that's were Tebay got his info.

Don't know whether there is a record of Pilot cutter purchasers after service in Liverpool.
MMM??

Regards
Dave



26
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Tuesday 08 June 10 14:07 BST (UK)  »
Hi Moya
The only info I have concerns Wm Daniels. He was attached to No1 sloop "Liverpool" on 31/12/1854 as a journeyman pilot, aged 58. He was 10 years older than anybody else on board so enjoyed a long career. No1 was built by Wm Dickinson in Liverpool in 1834. She was 55'x15'11"x8' with a gross rgistered tonnage (grt) of 58 tons. She was eventually sold in 1856 to a fisherman from Hoylake. Wm retired that year and died in 1857.
There isn't any info to suggest they were brothers. The 1851 census will give you their birthplace and then it's parish records for baptism.
Regards
Dave

27
Lancashire Lookup Offers / Re: Look-up Liverpool (Mersey) Pilots 1734/1990
« on: Thursday 29 April 10 14:31 BST (UK)  »
Ricky,
Have a look at www.old-liverpool.co.uk/Pilots where Joseph Bennett is listed as 2nd Master of No 6 sloop 'Friends Goodwill' in Feb 1808
Regards
Dave

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