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Messages - dunscore

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Australia / Re: John Peter Burns
« on: Thursday 05 November 20 06:25 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Maddys52,

Thank you for the info re the application  for John Peter Burns'/Byrnes Naturalization in 1934.

This is something I could follow up as you suggest.


Australia / Re: John Peter Burns
« on: Thursday 05 November 20 06:04 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Jorose,

The Transcript I obtained for Catherine Burns who died in 1927 was born in Kent, England.  She had been in the Colony for 57 years.  She was aged 79 at death and had been married in Waterloo, Sydney.  Husband was James.  She was buried in the Church of England cemetery, Rookwood.

As she was married in Sydney and I think John Peter Burns arrived in Australia aged about 10 years, then this really does count her out as being his mother.

Thank you for the info of Margaret Burn's mother's funeral.  A death notice noting Margaret's husband as being John would have been helpful too!

The car accident where John, Margaret and Theresa Burns were involved is a possibility.  Thank you for that too.

A death notice for Margaret Burns could also be of some help!

Trying to find Theresa Burns (who was aged 32 when her father died in 1942) has not been easy either. 

It is also strange that John Peter Burns' father was shown as Laurence Burns on his death Transcript but on his marriage to Agnes McDougall, it is shown as "James" .    John's address was shown as 237a Henderson Rd. Alexandria.  His religion shown as RC but when he married Agnes, it was in a Congregational Church in Sydney!


Australia / John Peter Burns
« on: Wednesday 04 November 20 06:04 GMT (UK)  »
John Peter Burns' first marriage was to my Grandmother, Agnes Urie McDougall in 1896.  They had a daughter the following year who died aged 7 weeks.  John and Agnes divorced in 1900.  John was born in Chicago, Illinois c. 1869 and according to his Marriage Certificate, his parents were James and Catherine.

I know almost nothing about him other than that on his Marriage Cert. I have just received a Transcript for a John Peter Burns who was born in Illinois, USA who married a Margaret Flanagan c. 1907.  According to the Transcript, the children of the marriage were Theresa 32, (in 1942 when he died), Living and 2 females deceased.  Wondering if one of these females was Violet, the daughter he had with Agnes in 1897, although I assume not.  No previous marriage was shown on Transcript.

The fact that this John Peter Burns was born in Illinois, makes me think he is the right one, although  his parents were named as "Laurence Burns and Catherine Unknown".  Obviously depends on the knowledge of the Informant (who was his daughter Theresa).

I also obtained a Transcript for a Catherine Burns who died 1927.  The informant to her death was her daughter Agnes.  Her religion was given as Church of England (whereas John's was shown as RC). 

Catherine's spouse was James Burns (same name as given on John's marriage to Agnes McDougall in 1896).  The children of the marriage of Catherine and James were Agnes, Clara and Ruby, Living and 1 male and 3 females deceased.

John died in Alexandria Municipality and Catherine in Redfern Municipality.

Is this mother and son and can anyone shed any light on John in particular?


Australia / McDougall boys photos
« on: Friday 23 October 20 07:29 BST (UK)  »
Janet (nee Robertson) and Dougal McDougall migrated to Sydney from Scotland c. 1882 and settled in Surry Hills, Sydney.

At the time, they had three children, Agnes, James and David and a further 8 children were born in Sydney.  There were 5 girls and 6 boys, 4 of the boys having served in WWI.  Only one of the boys returned home, the others being killed or dying of wounds in France, Belgium and Gallipoli.

I do have a photo of Agnes and brother Sid.  Three of the girls died before they were 20 and I do not have any photos of them (two being very young).  What I would dearly like, are photos of the boys who went to WWI. 

They were :

David Robertson McDougall, b. 1880 who died 1917, Belgium
Dougal McDougall, b. 1882 who died 1918, France
John (Jack) Algie McDougall, b. 1891, died 1915, Gallipoli
William McDougall, b. 1895, died 1950 in Lakemba, Sydney

I have only seen "Algie" in Jack's name on one occasion.

I would love to have a photo of any (or all) of these Great Uncles who were in the Great War.

The other brother of whom I do not have a photo, is James b. 1878, died 1944 in Sydney

Can anyone suggest where I might be able to locate a photo of these Great Uncles please?  I do have all their War Records from the AWM but there were no photos.


Australia / Re: Louisa/Maude Moss
« on: Sunday 18 October 20 02:08 BST (UK)  »
Sorry Jennaya,
That death was 1897, not 1896.  Violet was aged 7 weeks at death.

Australia / Re: Louisa/Maude Moss
« on: Sunday 18 October 20 02:06 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jennaya,

The baby I am concerned about, Louisa (later name changed to Maude) was born out of wedlock, in Feb. 1896.  She lived until in her eighties.

Agnes' first actual marriage to John Peter Burns was in Aug. 1896 and their daughter Violet was born the following March.  On her Death Transcript her Cause of Death is noted as "Premature Birth 7 months, Inanition".  Her father was the Informant to her death on 27 May, 1896 and she was buried the following day.


Australia / Re: Louisa/Maude Moss
« on: Friday 16 October 20 04:12 BST (UK)  »
Hi Sue,

Yes, I realise it is all "speculation" at present, but several boxes are ticked and I would certainly like to think this is the case.  Jane living at Glebe at the time, Agnes having already registered Louisa's birth and the initials A M and the post office in Crown Street!  All that makes sense.

In August of 1896, Agnes married an American from Chicago (John Peter Burns) who would have been about 27 years old.  Agnes had another daughter to him the following March and according to the birth certificate, Violet was born at 7 months.  Her death seven weeks later was caused by (amongst other things) malnutrition.  According to their Divorce papers (in 1900) he appears to have been a nasty gentleman, leaving Agnes "without visible means of support" and being violent and abusive!

Of course, there is a possibility that Burns could have been the father of Louisa and not wanted her, hence her being advertised.  Did Agnes know Burns at the time or was it a quick relationship prior to their marriage 4 months after Louisa had possibly gone to live with Jane??  So many questions.

The marriage to Burns does not tell me much other than his father's name and the father was deceased when they married.  I have no idea what happened to Burns and I haven't explored that path. 

Agnes married my grandfather 3 years after her divorce.  Whether my mother knew any of her mother's past life, I will never know.  Seems as though there were a number of skeletons in the closet!!  Sadly there is no one left to ask.

Thank you for all your help and insight into this thread.


Australia / Re: Louisa/Maude Moss
« on: Thursday 15 October 20 04:01 BST (UK)  »
Hello Wivenhoe,

I spoke with my relative and she has sent through a copy of Louisa/Maude's marriage to Ernest Pettitt.

On the left hand column it reads  :  "Maude Moss was handed over in legal form to Jane Moss, who adopted her".

Further down :  The Consent of  -  "Jane Moss, foster mother of the bride" was given in writing, etc.
Maude was only 20 at marriage, hence the consent.

They married on 26 April, 1916.

I am assuming that Jane considered Maude to  be her "adopted" daughter rather than "foster" daughter as Adoptions (as I understand it) did not come into being in Australia until 1924.


Australia / Re: Louisa/Maude Moss
« on: Thursday 15 October 20 01:28 BST (UK)  »
Wow Sue,
How on earth did you find that bit of info?  Well done and could be Agnes McDougall advertising for someone to take poor little Louisa.  I had no idea that one used to be able to put an advertisement in a newspaper for adoption/fostering!  No checks as to suitability were carried out in those days it would appear.  I think this is a very good assumption, especially as Jane appears to be living in Glebe - much closer to Surry Hills too.  Crown Street runs parallel to Bourke Street, where the McDougall family lived.  Jane was well into her fifties when she gave Louisa a home.  Apparently age was no barrier either.  Although I think Agnes' father was reasonably well off, with so many still living in the family home (a two storey Terrace) including several little ones, I guess there just wasn't room to keep Louisa too.  Maybe Agnes' parents were not happy about a child out of wedlock too!

The Informant on Jane Moss' DC was "E Pettitt, Son in Law, Thomas Street, Northmead. Registered on 13 June 1927, Parramatta".

I don't have a Marriage Cert. for Maude to Ernest Pettitt.  I could phone his relative (whose DNA was close to mine) and ask if she has one.  I will check on that thankyou Wivenhoe.

It would be wonderful to see if a Mr Cunneen or a Mr Jennings was indeed the biological father of Louisa.  Guess a descendant of one of them would have to do a DNA and have a close match to me to prove that and also be on Ancestry!

Thank you again,

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