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Messages - geordiewesterby

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Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: My Heritage DNA results
« on: Sunday 14 June 20 10:41 BST (UK)  »
Hi Gadget,

Thanks that's very interesting. It's 163.4 which the chart says is 52% probability of half 2nd cousins. The autosomal wiki chart is leaning towards half 2nd cousins as well. The other factor in this is that I have my Grandmother's wedding certificate from 1920 and the box for her father's name is left blank, while one of the witnesses was Thomas Drummond (who everyone in the family believed to be her father). She is named on the certificate as Charlotte Gilroy, her birth name. She's on the 1911 Census as Charlotte Drummond, but I guess she had just taken the name (or been given it as she was only 11 in 1911). The family story was that they got married after her birth, but it was actually 4 years after the birth and that was a few months before my 2nd cousin's grandmother was born so that looked like a rush to the altar. I think this result is just backing that up.

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / My Heritage DNA results
« on: Sunday 14 June 20 09:41 BST (UK)  »
Does anyone know much about these results. My 2nd cousin and I (my Dad and her Mam were either full or half cousins, we are trying to establish which) have got a 2.3% match on the My Heritage DNA test. We knew there would be a match but we are trying to see how strong, as we think that my grandmother and her grandmother, who were effectively full sisters, were in fact only half sisters. Would that percentage match support that? I was working on the premise that (very roughly) siblings have about 50%, cousins 25%, 2nd cousins 12%. I know that's probably a primitive assumption but has anyone out there had experience of the results?

Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / DNA testing
« on: Thursday 14 May 20 10:17 BST (UK)  »
I have to admit that I don't know very much about DNA testing and I can see from posts on here that people are well into it. So here is my dilemma. I have a second cousin. She is descended from Thomas Drummond who was her great grandfather. The line goes like this: Thomas Drummond - Margaret Drummond - Sarah her daughter - Tracy my 2nd cousin. We are trying to ascertain whether I am descended from him or not: Thomas Drummond - Charlotte Drummond - John her son - Me.

We don't think that Thomas Drummond fathered Charlotte, so we think that Charlotte Drummond and Margaret Drummond were half-sister as opposed to being full sisters (they definitely had the same mother).

Would a one of these Ancestry DNA tests for me and one for Tracy determine that does anyone know, or it is a waste of money as you can't really determine that?

The Common Room / Grandmother's Paternity
« on: Wednesday 13 May 20 11:56 BST (UK)  »
Hi everyone. I have a puzzle which I cannot resolve and while I think I have aired it before, I thought why not try again as you never know, someone might be able to point me somewhere.

My Grandmother was born Charlotte Gilroy in Gateshead, Co Durham on 20th June 1900. Her birth was registered by her mother Mary Ann Gilroy, who was unmarried and there is no mention of the father. I understand that the father would have had to have been present when the birth was registered for him to be on the certificate: anyway he's not mentioned. Mary Ann Gilroy's occupation at the time of the 1891 Census was 'Rope Factory Girl' and on the 1901 Census she is living with he father, occupation 'Rope Spinner' and no mention of a daughter: I can't locate a Charlotte Gilroy on the 1901 Census who would be my Grandmother.

The family story was that Charlotte's father was Thomas Drummond, who came from farming stock in Northumberland. The family moved to Gateshead and I think had some resource, as they lived in 'a big house near Saltwell Park' in Gateshead. The family disapproved of Thomas' relationship with Mary and he was not allowed to see her but they married after Charlotte's birth.

Problem was that when I started to research properly, I discovered that Thomas & Mary didn't actually marry until the June quarter of 1904, and my Grandmother's sister Margaret was born on 25th September 1904, so that looks to me like they were getting married because there was another child on the way. Anyway on the 1911 Census there is my grandmother with the family, named as Charlotte Drummond.

The next problem came was when I got to see my grandmother's wedding certificate: she married my grandfather in 1922 but is shown as 'Charlotte Gilroy' and where the father's name and occupation is shown,  it just has a line drawn through it as if her father was unknown. Yet Thomas Drummond would undoubtedly have been at the wedding and indeed one of the witnesses was a Thomas Drummond: the only other person of that name in the family was my Grandmother's younger brother who was only 14 at the time so I can't imagine a 14-year-old child being a witness at a wedding, so I assume the witness is her father/stepfather Thomas Drummond.

My Dad's cousin originally said that 'if you'd know my Grandad Drummond, there was no way he would have said a girl was a daughter of his if she hadn't been' and in addition I have one of those '4 generations' photos which shows my Dad, my Grandmother, Thomas Drummond, and Thomas' mother: but after 10-15 years or so she has changed her views and she now accepts that Thomas Drummond wasn't the father. Thinking about the physical similarity between my grandmother who was very fine-featured and her siblings who were quite heavy-featured have altered her opinion.

So I have finally detached Thomas from my Grandmother in my tree and made Mary a 'Single mother' to my Grandmother but the doubt remains in my mind, part of me says yes he was and part of me says no he wasn't.

Does anyone have any thoughts. Would DNA testing be of any value does anything think? My second cousin is into the family tree as well and would links between her and I in testing reveal anything?


Any thoughts anyone has would be

Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests / Doncaster Burials
« on: Tuesday 01 January 13 18:19 GMT (UK)  »
Does anyone know of any resources online or otherwise, for a burial in Doncaster. I'm looking for a John Westerby who died on 21 April 1837 and according to an internet site he was buried on 26 April 1837 in Doncaster but I don't know in which graveyard. 

Northumberland / Re: Apelcross
« on: Wednesday 03 August 11 21:54 BST (UK)  »
Great stuff, thanks a lot :)

Northumberland / Apelcross
« on: Wednesday 03 August 11 16:01 BST (UK)  »
I've got a relative in the 1911 Census, George N Renwick, who farmed at Canada Farm, Longframlington, and his birthplace is down on the Census as 'Apelcross' - not somewhere in Northumberland that I've ever heard of, so I looked on the net and the only place with that name is Applecross in Wester Ross in Scotland. Not impossible that he was from there of course, but does anyone have any other ideas as to where that place is ?

Family History Beginners Board / 1922 Marriage
« on: Sunday 22 August 10 20:26 BST (UK)  »
I just wondered whether anyone was up on protocol of names on certificates in the 20s. My grandmother was born in 1900 in Gateshead and was christened Charlotte Gilroy, her mother was Mary Ann Gilroy, unmarried.  The family story was that her father, Thomas Drummond, wasn't allowed to marry Mary Ann Gilroy, as his family disapproved of her but that they married after her birth. When I researched however I found that Thomas and Mary Ann didn't get married until early 1904, and this looks as if it was because my grandmother's sister, my great aunt Margaret was on the way (she was born late 1904).
I can't find her on the 1901 Census but on the 1911 Census she is listed as Charlotte Drummond aged 11. However when she got married in 1922, she is recorded on the marriage cert as Charlotte Gilroy, and the space for her father's name and profession just have a line drawn through them. Thomas Drummond is a witness, which can only be either her mother's husband, or her brother Thomas but he was only 14 at the time, which would have been too young to be a witness at a marriage surely ?

Does anyone know whether the conventions of the time prevented her father from being named on the marriage cert, or does it just mean that he wasn't her father ?

Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests / Re: West Yorkshire Archive Wakefield
« on: Saturday 11 April 09 12:08 BST (UK)  »
Thanks D,

Tried it out, wasn't sure what Findmypast was, I thought it was the LDS, but it's not to do with them. It's the same mob who used to run which I thought was a major rip-off, charging people to look at pages of the BMD online, not indexed, and stuff I could go to the library in North Shileds and look at for nowt.  >:(

Still I wanted to see what they had and it was 8 quid for however many credits, 40 or 50 I think, so I decided to give it a go. It wasn't like you had to pay 70 quid or whatever. Nothing relating to what I'm looking for but downloaded some stuff that might be useful in the future depending on where my Yorkshire research leads.   ???

They still have this incredibly annoying practice though of offering up stuff after a search, which is a page of info on which the name you are looking for MIGHT be featured, and you have to use a credit in order to find out. And more often than not it's not there of course. And they boast of winning some Queen's Award To Industry as well...swindlers.


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