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Messages - KiwiDi

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Family History Beginners Board / Re: The Joel-Ellis family
« on: Tuesday 20 September 11 11:02 BST (UK)  »
Hi Nick.
If you look down the chain of messages you'll see just about all the information I have got. Joseph Frederick Joel Ellis, of The Grange, Ellistown was my grandmother's grandfather on my father's side. One of his children, Eve, married an Austrian and lived in Vienna. Their daughter was my grandmother. My late godmother, Peggy Jacobson, also a second cousin, was the grandchild of another of the Joel Ellis children.
The mine remained in the family (my grandmother was NOT part of this inheritance) until the mining industry was nationalised.
I have never heard of Charles Edward, and he never figured in any of my godmother's lists and tales of Ellistown and her uncles.
She did mention Ellis and Everard as the company the family was involved with - they were not in coal by that time but in pottery items such as pipes for drainage and so forth.
I would be interested in learning more about the mine and the pottery; I still have no idea why Joseph Frederick Joel decided upon on the name ELLIS as an addition to his original surname, changing it legally by deed poll in 1863.
My suspicion is the the Ellis family had somehow helped him in his ambitions, and that the addition of the name Ellis made the family sound less Jewish.
I'm also trying to verify the link between Joseph Frederick Joel Ellis, Lewis Joel (I suspect a much younger brother) and Sarah Joel who died in New York.
Is any of this helpful?

Family History Beginners Board / Re: The Joel-Ellis family
« on: Monday 19 September 11 11:03 BST (UK)  »
A response to Nick.
Hi Nick.
I am a direct descendant of the Joel-Ellis family myself, but a person with  the names of  Charles Edward doesn't mean anything to me, and I have done some quite extensive research on the children, grandchildren and so one down the line. Are you sure that the ancestry of your Charles Edward is the same as my lot? You can see all the immediate descendants on my message further u p on the chain of replies.
I would be interested in seeing whatever information you have, as it might help resolve this. The one I am interested in tracing in Lewis Joel, who ended up as Consul General in Savannah and who I believe was the brother of Joseph Frederick Joel Ellis. Plus the adoption of the name ELLIS itself - I know when but I don't really know WHY.
Looking forward to a reply from you - I haven't been logging into this site much recently, hence delay in dicovering your message.

Family History Beginners Board / Re: The Joel-Ellis family
« on: Monday 25 May 09 14:53 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks for this.

I can tell you that  Eve (Evelyn)  Gertrude eloped with an Austrian cavalry officer, was cut off by her father, became Eve Brandeis-Weikersheim and subsequently lived in Vienna until forced to return to England in 1938 to escape the Nazis.  She had one surviving child, a daughter, but did I believe separate  quite early from her husband Hermann as she rather liked the high society life  of the Viennese upper middle classes, and he was a renowned bore!

Isidore lived at The Grange in Ellistown,  Walter became a solicitor and Albert a barrister.   

Joseph Joel-Ellis  started his career in London as a jeweller at 49 The Strand, and subsequently had three decently prestigious London addresses at various times, once he had got into the mining industry: can't find right now the first one, in South Kensington, but the second was The Grange near what is now South Kensington station, (he probably got it cheap because the plans for the underground must have been underway and it was demolished)  and the third was 51 Portland Place and is now the Chinese Embassy.  He was then listed as Col Joseph Joel Ellis, Consul General for Persia, so he didn't do too badly!

I have been trying to work out the relationships of the previous generation and where the family had originally come from. I have traced Joseph Frederick Joel-Ellis (or The Colonel as he was known) and his parents back via Ireland and Bristol to Krotoschin (now Posen) in Bohemia. His parents were called Pessa and Isaiah Joel.

The name of Joel-Ellis was formed by deed poll  in 1863. He died in London in 1885 and there is an obituary in The Jewish Chronicle and The Lady (!). My interest is in the lateral connections that must be Lewis Joel and Sarah Joel - very likely a brother and sister.  I also want to find out where the ELLIS name came from i.e. was it taken on as a compliment to a family who had helped him into the coal business or something. There was certainly a connection with Ellis and Everard the manufacturers of sanitation/drainage pottery, bricks and pipeware, nationalised in the 1960s.

The Colonel's wife was called Marguerite nee Nathan and brought a Latin American connection, hence Walter's second name. She may have been born in Brazil or Peru.

Of course one of the things that makes it interesting and a little harder to research is that the family was Jewish. That's possibly another reason for taking on an extra English sounding surname, particularly as he did end up with honorary diplomatic positions.

Hope you find this of use.

What is your interest in this family? I can write up the  things I have  more clearly if you are interested and can add some more detail.

Family History Beginners Board / Re: The Joel-Ellis family
« on: Wednesday 06 May 09 20:04 BST (UK)  »
Thank you. I didn't know how to get from one section to another without travelling all the way out and then in again!

Family History Beginners Board / The Joel-Ellis family
« on: Monday 04 May 09 13:27 BST (UK)  »
A few weeks ago I  logged in on rootschat to a series of messages about one Marguerite Joel Ellis with a researcher called Danone who had received several responses from amongst others, Kintree. I was able to add quite a lot to this, but have had no followup response, perhaps because all the lead up chat was already several months old. So I would like to touch base with anyone who has further to add.  I am in particular interested to know if there is any known connection between her husband Col Joseph Frederick Joel-Ellis of Ellistown in Leicestershire and one Lewis Joel born in Dubin in 1824, who much later was H.M. Consul General to Savannah in Georgia.
If anyone has further information on the Ellistown colliery, the Ellis and Everard works and family or the Joel-Ellis family I'd be pleased to hear from them.

Dublin / Re: Marguerite Ellis
« on: Monday 20 April 09 10:02 BST (UK)  »
For your interest, here is further information, correcting and adding to the previous letters.
Joseph Frederick Joel was born in 1816, possibly in Bristol. His name was changed by deed poll to JOEL-ELLIS in 1863. He died in London in 1885 (see obituary in The Jewish Chronicle, 10th July 1885).
There WAS an Irish connection on that side of the family, as his parents were Pessa and Isaiah JOEL who started out in Bristol, immigrating from Krotoschin (now Posen) in Bohemia. they moved to Ireland. Joseph must have returned to London from there.
Isaiah died in Dublin in 1840. Joseph WAS a jeweller in London, based in 49 The Strand.  The name change was something to do with the colliery and a link subsequently to Ellis and Everard (bricks).  The Grange, Ellistown, was the family home, and the children were  Walter Lima, George, Montague, Chatham, Percy, Isidore Lewis, Evelyn (Eve) Gertrude, and Bessie.  And a still born son, buried in the Jewish section of the Brompton Cemetery in London.There were also London houses, the final one being in Portland Place. It's now the Chinese Embassy!  Joseph Frederick was indeed known within the family as "The Colonel" and seems to have also been Consul-General for Persia during the 1880s.
His wife was certainly Marguerite, maiden name NATHAN. When they married he was still at  the Strand, and  she was living in Artillery Lane in the East End. But she was born (1829) possibly in Brazil. Or could it have been Peru? The Latin American connection is verified by Walter's second name being LIMA. She died in Brighton in the Edwardian era.
I think there may also have been a link with one LEWIS JOEL, born in Dublin, in 1824 (d. London 1899) son of ISAAC JOEL,who himself was another son of Pessa and Isaiah.  There also seems to have been a sister called Sarah. Lewis was H.M. Consul General to Savannah, Georgia. Sarah also went to America and died in New York. The connection is partially confirmed by the Colonel's will, which left money to a  Lewis and a Sarah. They must have been siblings or cousins. And N.B. look at Isidore's second name (Lewis).
Anyone who can add anything to this - your contributions gratefully received. It's particularly the connection between Joseph and Lewis/Sarah that I would like to have confirmed.
So yes, there IS an Irish connection, as well as  links with London, Bristol, Latin America, and further back, with Central Europe at the time of the pogroms.

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